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FAA Authorizes Flight-Time Reduction for ASU Program Grads
Graduates of the flight-training program at Arizona State University Polytechnic can now be hired as airline co-pilots with 1000 hours flight time vs. 1500 hours. (www.azcentral.com) Más...Sort type: [Top] [Newest]
Well, the one thing that most all will agree on is that the 1500 hr rule was congressional pressure, a knee jerk reaction to a group of people having a specific agenda, that had not looked at all the data, or at least it was not considered. There was good rulemaking on the REST part of things but even that was flawed by doing it from an economic standpoint, rather than need, or else the cargo folks would have been included also. They are as human as the rest of the folks. At any rate, it is all out there now and folks are going to have to live with it and try and make some changes. We may not be to the point of acute shortages right now but we are seeing the beginning and the shortage will come. It may get band-aided and stop gapped for awhile but at some point and time, immediate major surgery will be required and we'll be right back to a point of beginning.
The UPS crew met the new rest rules, and still crashed. It's hard to work the night shift. No amount of rest rules changes human physiology.
Night shift workers overall have that problem. There are some that can deal with it and some not. There are some that try and maintain a daytime lifestyle and can and some that can't. There are some that can throw daytime out the window and go fine on continual nights and some that can't. This is one that will go on forever as it can't be easily regulated just by numbers. It is individual physiology and is going to have to be dealt with on an individual basis. Cargo pretty much has to move at nite while day shift sleeps and that won't ever change.
Well, there is not going to be an easy answer, and both you guys are right as will probably be the next person that chimes in here with an idea. 1st things 1st, whether they should be or not is irrelevant, but the way the rule reads, a 1500 hr FO that has never seen anything bigger than a C-421 could conceivably be tagged as Captain on an ERJ-175, as far as FAA requirements go. Myself, I'd rather have a lower time FO in the right seat to train than I would have a 1500 wonder that had just flown a pattern or drug a banner for that time.
Most regional airlines are on a full seat contract from the major, so their biggest problem is just going to be having enough pilots to man what they have and stay within costs. While those full seat contracts are nice, they are bid/awarded at a fixed price and if costs are not kept in line, then they have a problem. The majors are going to have to recognize this and allow a pass thru of those contract costs or those contracts will wind up unfulfilled.
The FAA has already done some relaxing of the 1500 hour rule for various colleges. Airlines are going to have to set up training of some kind, and for those maintaining private training, loan money is going to have to be made available through the Student loan Act rather than all thru private financing that cannot be effectively serviced by the expected job, of which there is no guarantee that they will get anyway.
Most regional airlines are on a full seat contract from the major, so their biggest problem is just going to be having enough pilots to man what they have and stay within costs. While those full seat contracts are nice, they are bid/awarded at a fixed price and if costs are not kept in line, then they have a problem. The majors are going to have to recognize this and allow a pass thru of those contract costs or those contracts will wind up unfulfilled.
The FAA has already done some relaxing of the 1500 hour rule for various colleges. Airlines are going to have to set up training of some kind, and for those maintaining private training, loan money is going to have to be made available through the Student loan Act rather than all thru private financing that cannot be effectively serviced by the expected job, of which there is no guarantee that they will get anyway.
A few different points.
1. If needed, the airlines should be able to set up their own training programs, that take a young good pilot with good skills but not a lot of experience and put him or her through a rigorous FAA-approved training program to throw'm into a right seat apprentice program much, much earlier than 1500. Of course the airline would pick up most/all of the training expense in exchange for several guaranteed years of flying.
2. A big problem with seething up these training programs is that US majors now use regional airlines to provide their for low-cost flying needs. They hire the starter pilots, but don't have the money to set up these training programs.
3. The higher cost of hiring more experienced 1500 HR pilots will be passed along to the majors, when each contract comes up for bid again. All regionals will have higher costs so their bids will br higher, and the mainlines will have to pay more.
4. Immediately many regionals are experiencing severe pilot shortages and are just parking some of their least efficient fleets. They don't have the pilots, and these contracts don't provide enough money to hire new pilots at the new going rate. So they've been notifying their mainline partners that they're not able to fly all the promised aircraft.
5. Lastly and most importantly, nite that in some recent airliner crashes the pilot-flying captain had few hours on type.
The Colgan captain was pilot flying and PIC but only had 110 hours on the Dash-8 Q400, all as a captain.
The Asiana captain was pilot flying with only about 35 hours on the 777, all as captain. The instructor pilot was PIC.
Why not make each pilot work as a copilot for the first 250 on each new type with an experienced pilot in the left seat with lots of experience and who know the plane well.
After 250 hours of copilot pay, they can go back to being a captain, but a more appropriately confident one.
Every plane is different. They may all be governed by the same laws of physics, of which gravity not being the least important. But not only are the flight decks different from type to type, the way each plane handles varies also. Plus all those checklists will also differ from plane to plane.
Being familiar with a plane is important. The higher ranking captain should not be so inexperienced that they should have to lean on the co-pilot as a crutch.
1. If needed, the airlines should be able to set up their own training programs, that take a young good pilot with good skills but not a lot of experience and put him or her through a rigorous FAA-approved training program to throw'm into a right seat apprentice program much, much earlier than 1500. Of course the airline would pick up most/all of the training expense in exchange for several guaranteed years of flying.
2. A big problem with seething up these training programs is that US majors now use regional airlines to provide their for low-cost flying needs. They hire the starter pilots, but don't have the money to set up these training programs.
3. The higher cost of hiring more experienced 1500 HR pilots will be passed along to the majors, when each contract comes up for bid again. All regionals will have higher costs so their bids will br higher, and the mainlines will have to pay more.
4. Immediately many regionals are experiencing severe pilot shortages and are just parking some of their least efficient fleets. They don't have the pilots, and these contracts don't provide enough money to hire new pilots at the new going rate. So they've been notifying their mainline partners that they're not able to fly all the promised aircraft.
5. Lastly and most importantly, nite that in some recent airliner crashes the pilot-flying captain had few hours on type.
The Colgan captain was pilot flying and PIC but only had 110 hours on the Dash-8 Q400, all as a captain.
The Asiana captain was pilot flying with only about 35 hours on the 777, all as captain. The instructor pilot was PIC.
Why not make each pilot work as a copilot for the first 250 on each new type with an experienced pilot in the left seat with lots of experience and who know the plane well.
After 250 hours of copilot pay, they can go back to being a captain, but a more appropriately confident one.
Every plane is different. They may all be governed by the same laws of physics, of which gravity not being the least important. But not only are the flight decks different from type to type, the way each plane handles varies also. Plus all those checklists will also differ from plane to plane.
Being familiar with a plane is important. The higher ranking captain should not be so inexperienced that they should have to lean on the co-pilot as a crutch.
"The FAA has given about 35 other schools permission to certify graduates with 1,000 or 1,250 flight hours, according to an administration database."
There was a need to create some nuance to the new regulation.
There may be a more changes that may have some more categories of pilots or planes eligible with fewer than 1500 hours and greater than the previous 250.
Maybe keep 1500 + ATP for captains, and allow lower limits for co/pilots in tiers for 25-49 passengers, and 50-74 passengers, plus 75 pasengers and up, with 1,000 1,250 and 1,500 hour requirements for each tier respectively. For the lowest tier 10-24, which is just above part 135, could also have substantially lowered hours for co-pilots, maybe 500.
Every flight with 10 it more passengers would still have a 1500+ hr ATP captain, with commensurate pay. The co-pilots would have experience requirement tiers that would correspond with their level of responsibility. Pay would step up as their experience steps up.
This compromise would provide a way for pilots to get their experience; good experience. Also provides airlines a way to get co-pilots for their smallest planes.
Without such a compromise, many of the smallest planes that require 2 1500 ATP pilots will stop flying, and those small cities/ airports that they serve will stop getting commercial airline service.
Smaller jets will continue to be replaced by similar capacity turboprops no matter what. But this smallest turboprops with few seats will just not be able produce enough revenue to pay for 2 ATP 1500 hr pilots, as the wages for pilots with that level of experience will go up, even more rapidly without the creation of the tiers suggested above. With tiers the change will be more gradually and create less disruption.
Without tiers the change will be sudden, causing much disruption. Many pilot jobs will disappear, plus many other supporting jobs. Also many smaller airports will lose service, which in many cases will never come back (even if the rules are later relaxed after the fact).
There was a need to create some nuance to the new regulation.
There may be a more changes that may have some more categories of pilots or planes eligible with fewer than 1500 hours and greater than the previous 250.
Maybe keep 1500 + ATP for captains, and allow lower limits for co/pilots in tiers for 25-49 passengers, and 50-74 passengers, plus 75 pasengers and up, with 1,000 1,250 and 1,500 hour requirements for each tier respectively. For the lowest tier 10-24, which is just above part 135, could also have substantially lowered hours for co-pilots, maybe 500.
Every flight with 10 it more passengers would still have a 1500+ hr ATP captain, with commensurate pay. The co-pilots would have experience requirement tiers that would correspond with their level of responsibility. Pay would step up as their experience steps up.
This compromise would provide a way for pilots to get their experience; good experience. Also provides airlines a way to get co-pilots for their smallest planes.
Without such a compromise, many of the smallest planes that require 2 1500 ATP pilots will stop flying, and those small cities/ airports that they serve will stop getting commercial airline service.
Smaller jets will continue to be replaced by similar capacity turboprops no matter what. But this smallest turboprops with few seats will just not be able produce enough revenue to pay for 2 ATP 1500 hr pilots, as the wages for pilots with that level of experience will go up, even more rapidly without the creation of the tiers suggested above. With tiers the change will be more gradually and create less disruption.
Without tiers the change will be sudden, causing much disruption. Many pilot jobs will disappear, plus many other supporting jobs. Also many smaller airports will lose service, which in many cases will never come back (even if the rules are later relaxed after the fact).