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Capt Sullenberger criticizing Boeing and FAA
Capt. Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger says the FAA’s handling of the deadly crashes of two Boeing 737 Max 8 jetliners in just five months has damaged the United States’ longstanding “credibility as leaders in aviation.” Sullenberger is a retired airline pilot who famously landed his US Airways jet — an Airbus 320 — in the icy Hudson River off Manhattan in January 2009, after hitting a flock of geese and losing power in both engines. All 155 people on board the plane survived. (www.newsandguts.com) Más...Sort type: [Top] [Newest]
Amen - about time some said this, Thanks Capt
I don't care if it was Sullenberger or Daedalus making a criticism. WHAT was the criticism?
With Lion Air's crash, I read of a forced and uncorrected pitch down that made me wonder why it was uncorrected.
With Ethiopian's crash, I read of a forced and uncorrected pitch down that made me wonder why the FAA hadn't grounded the Max 8's the day after Lion Air's crash.
Autopilots sometimes do funny things. A pilot flying's first (and should be only) instinct is to simply put down the coffee and grab the yoke. The autopilot objects but obeys. Anything otherwise is just plane (!) wrong. That's what rang my bells when I read of Lion Air's demise. In Air France's Atlantic Ocean (AF-447) crash, it was the pilot flying who screwed up but that's why we have human pilots. The command BELONGS to a human, not two switches buried near the pilot's knees.
I agree with Sullenberger (if I may): FAA should have had their own bells ringing after Lion Air.
With Lion Air's crash, I read of a forced and uncorrected pitch down that made me wonder why it was uncorrected.
With Ethiopian's crash, I read of a forced and uncorrected pitch down that made me wonder why the FAA hadn't grounded the Max 8's the day after Lion Air's crash.
Autopilots sometimes do funny things. A pilot flying's first (and should be only) instinct is to simply put down the coffee and grab the yoke. The autopilot objects but obeys. Anything otherwise is just plane (!) wrong. That's what rang my bells when I read of Lion Air's demise. In Air France's Atlantic Ocean (AF-447) crash, it was the pilot flying who screwed up but that's why we have human pilots. The command BELONGS to a human, not two switches buried near the pilot's knees.
I agree with Sullenberger (if I may): FAA should have had their own bells ringing after Lion Air.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I've read that the black box data from the Ethiopian Airlines' 800 Max showed that this "Danse Macabre" began when the MCAS somehow swapped an altitude input (37,012 feet ) with an AOA input indicating that there was a severe up angle. It automatically corrected the latter with a big down trim order to the elevators. The pilots had NO idea why their airplane had suddenly pitched down and they were being told told:"Stall."
Boeing 800 and 900 Max airplanes have been operating successfully world wide for two years now. To the best of my knowledge, this problem hadn't happened until these two accidents (three, if you take into account the jump seat pilot's suggestion on the flight on the day before the Lion Air crash.)
I'm not an aviator, but my engineering background in submarines tells me that President Trump was onto something when he said that airplanes have become too complex. I think he meant that pilots don't really know what their automated computerized flight systems are doing and so aren't are not sufficiently savvy to overcome software-generated anomalies that they don't comprehend, but nevertheless demand immediate resolution.
As a USNA Midshipman back in the 1950s we had the unique experience of flying N-3N "Yellow Peril bi-wing float planes during our final two years. I'd paid close attention to a WWII Navy training film in which Robert Taylor had emphasized putting on rudder as you chopped the power just before touching down.
I'd made what I thought was picture perfect landing approach on Chesapeake Bay, so when I judged myself to be about 5-7 feet above then water I chopped power -- and applied right rudder. If it had been a ground landing it would've been a ground loop because the port wing tip would've hit the ground. The port wing float went under but it saved us from anything more serious.
My instructor pilot was upset, to say the least. He jumped out of his forward seat, turned aft to me and said: "Mister Steiner, you were making a great approach. Why did you kick the rudder on? (He was more demonstrative and colorful, to be sure). I meekly responded."Sir, that's what Robert Taylor said to do when we chopped the power."
He exploded and shouted something at me that millions of American women would've done in a heartbeat.,
He said: "F%&# Robert Taylor. Just fly how it feels!"
Then he calmed down and said: "Wanna try its again?" I did and this time I aced it. He gave me 4.0 for the afternoon and taught a lifetime lesson in the process that has worked well in all environments -- "Just fly it how feels."
Back to the point of all this. It appears that the cockpit crews of both planes tried to fight something their indicators had told them -- something that they didn't comprehend -- instead of relying on their experience and instincts that should've told them they weren't stalling and to take control manually.
Boeing 800 and 900 Max airplanes have been operating successfully world wide for two years now. To the best of my knowledge, this problem hadn't happened until these two accidents (three, if you take into account the jump seat pilot's suggestion on the flight on the day before the Lion Air crash.)
I'm not an aviator, but my engineering background in submarines tells me that President Trump was onto something when he said that airplanes have become too complex. I think he meant that pilots don't really know what their automated computerized flight systems are doing and so aren't are not sufficiently savvy to overcome software-generated anomalies that they don't comprehend, but nevertheless demand immediate resolution.
As a USNA Midshipman back in the 1950s we had the unique experience of flying N-3N "Yellow Peril bi-wing float planes during our final two years. I'd paid close attention to a WWII Navy training film in which Robert Taylor had emphasized putting on rudder as you chopped the power just before touching down.
I'd made what I thought was picture perfect landing approach on Chesapeake Bay, so when I judged myself to be about 5-7 feet above then water I chopped power -- and applied right rudder. If it had been a ground landing it would've been a ground loop because the port wing tip would've hit the ground. The port wing float went under but it saved us from anything more serious.
My instructor pilot was upset, to say the least. He jumped out of his forward seat, turned aft to me and said: "Mister Steiner, you were making a great approach. Why did you kick the rudder on? (He was more demonstrative and colorful, to be sure). I meekly responded."Sir, that's what Robert Taylor said to do when we chopped the power."
He exploded and shouted something at me that millions of American women would've done in a heartbeat.,
He said: "F%&# Robert Taylor. Just fly how it feels!"
Then he calmed down and said: "Wanna try its again?" I did and this time I aced it. He gave me 4.0 for the afternoon and taught a lifetime lesson in the process that has worked well in all environments -- "Just fly it how feels."
Back to the point of all this. It appears that the cockpit crews of both planes tried to fight something their indicators had told them -- something that they didn't comprehend -- instead of relying on their experience and instincts that should've told them they weren't stalling and to take control manually.
Keeping in mind that the pilot flying was flying when he shouldn't have been, what about JFK Jr.? He flew how it felt.
The point here is that flying can be dangerous sometimes. Often, you can't just fly how it feels. Your butt can be just as wrong as a frozen pitot tube. I would have pointed that out to your IP. Even the most experienced and skillful aviators can make lethal mistakes. I once saw two seagulls fighting over some morsel when the bird chasing pulled violently out of the chase and the bird being chased flew smack into a condo's mirrored window.
The best you can hope for is good planning, good execution of that plan, careful review, and obsessive application of any corrections needed. (Can't remember who's quote that is.)
Nothing is perfect. But, a computer should NEVER be the Pilot In Command.
The point here is that flying can be dangerous sometimes. Often, you can't just fly how it feels. Your butt can be just as wrong as a frozen pitot tube. I would have pointed that out to your IP. Even the most experienced and skillful aviators can make lethal mistakes. I once saw two seagulls fighting over some morsel when the bird chasing pulled violently out of the chase and the bird being chased flew smack into a condo's mirrored window.
The best you can hope for is good planning, good execution of that plan, careful review, and obsessive application of any corrections needed. (Can't remember who's quote that is.)
Nothing is perfect. But, a computer should NEVER be the Pilot In Command.
SUlly knows what hes talking about. Dont know what people are saying on here that they are sick of him.. The guy pulled off a WATER landing and he knows what hes talking about obviously
It appears that the penultimate pilot of the crashed 737 Max 8 had the same failure as had the pilot during the fatal flight. Was this griped on the aircraft logs? Did the pilot down the aircraft for inspection? Was the last pilot informed of the inflight incident? Lots of ignored flags.
Yet another example of a government agency not doing their job. Should we be surprised? Of course not. Will anyone be fired or held accountable? Probably not.