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Two drunk United Airlines pilots arrested before flight

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Téo drunk United Airlines Pilots where arrested in Glasgow. (www.dailymail.co.uk) Más...

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fastroper
Cecil Clark 8
Scratch 2 pilots off the UAL seniority list. Some lucky FO is upgrading to Capt and add one more to the next UAL FO hiring class...what a couple dumbasses.
canuck44
canuck44 6
Not sure the Captain was involved but the two right seaters. One report stated the Captain was not implicated nor removed. The likelihood of having a 45 year old or 35 yo PIC on a 763 is pretty low.
aylaannac
ayla annac 5
we need to trust our pilots with our lives drinking is not acceptable
kg0ye
Griff Griffin 8
You may remember in the 1990s a Northwest Crew was arrested having arrived on a 727 from Fargo, ND and a nights drinking. What you may not know is that Captain, today, is a hero to me. His name is Lyle Prouse and put yourself in his shoes for a moment after he made his mind up to do what had to be done to rebuild his shambled career. Long story short, he started from Private Pilot and past every exam from there up to get all his licenses back as set forth by the FAA as a condition to continue to fly. This didn't happen overnight. He had to spend some prison time then some time in a halfway house before taking up flying again. He finally made it all the way back into a Northwest Airlines cockpit as a 747 copilot and I think (say think, not sure) Delta Airlines allowed him to fly his final trip as a Captain on a 747.

Amazing the things the man had to do. Today he makes a few public appearances and talks about his alcoholism and recovery. Sure, he made a mistake, but today, Lyle, you are a hero of mine. We barely knew each other, but when bad times hit, I think of your example. Great man, regardless of one mistake. My hat is off to you.
KineticRider
Randy Marco -5
Sorry, but you must have been raised with low expectations and values if you consider Lyle a hero for having a personality weakness, alcoholism. His hitting bottom and turning his life around you may find inspirational but a "hero" NO WAY. A true Hero would never find himself in the gutter.

You may think I'm brutal, well life IS brutal and we all have to deal with life, the difference is weak people need crutches strong people don't and I find nothing attractive or heroic about weakness, surround yourself with it and you will sink to that level.
goincoconuts
goincoconuts 3
Looks like UA is looking for two pilots. The part that really irritates me is crap like this that is going to create regulation and automation in aviation because idiots can't show up to work sober.
DarrylLyons
Darryl Lyons 2
I'm sorry to take exception to the wording "Too drunk to fly". I didn't realize there was a degree of drunkeness when it was acceptable to fly. Maybe I'm just being picky, but to a non-pilot it might sound like a few drinks are OK, just don't be "too drunk to fly.
PSUAth
well, techincally, you can't drink 8 hours before a flight, BUT if you were so drunk before then, youc an legally have a BAC of 0.03 and still fly. (14 cfr 91.17)
TWA55
TWA55 2
Not a big surprise, many pilots have a drinking problem, and they are not necessarily alcoholics. Maybe it's time that crews are subjected to breath test before they are allowed to fly, cabin crews as well.
carlsonj
James Carlson 1
I don't know what the technical dividing line is for determining "alcoholism," and I don't see how it matters here, but it seems fairly clear to me that if you have a job (or task) that requires that you're free of influence and you still show up for duty in a fog of EtOH, then you have at least a problem in judgment.

If you had a reasonably unobtrusive system like that, and if it were coupled with a promise of help for those who end up failing, then it could work.

The problem with "throw them all out" solutions is that it gives people an incredible incentive to find ways to beat the system. And you can be sure that if a lot is at stake, they will.

That's why most of the existing (and functioning) compliance systems include incentives for participation.
KineticRider
Randy Marco 1
You can't beat a breathalyze. We as a Society are way too loose at cutting people slack, just look at the posts here defending/making allowances for being drunk.

Simply, check every pilot with a breathalyzer and fire those caught twice.

If you can't show up to ANY job sober you're irresponsible, but show up to a job that threatens OTHERS by your bad choices and you are a CRIMINAL.
carlsonj
James Carlson 2
At no point did I suggest "cutting people slack." I don't know how you managed to read that into my response.

Instead, what I said was that the system, if one were instituted, would have to have some possibility of a positive outcome for people to participate. An example of a good system is the ASRS run by NASA. I'm not suggesting that *exactly* the same mechanism be used here -- it certainly would make no sense to do so -- but rather that the same idea be employed: participation has to be a useful action.

If all you have is the threat of firing (and loss of an entire career and livelihood), then people will cheat. They'll cheat by getting someone else to do the test. Or by having someone submit false results. And others will certainly help them do so. It's just human nature.

Badly designed systems always have unintended consequences, and what you're describing strikes me as exactly one of those systems.

A good example of a bad system is our current medical examination system for pilots in the US. It has built-in incentives to do the wrong thing at every turn: if some condition is disqualifying, you may well see yourself as better off either to avoid having the problem diagnosed and treated properly, or falsifying your medical application (which is easy because the AME doesn't necessarily check everything). It's a crummy system precisely because it encourages people to do the things we don't want them doing, and rewards those who cheat. A well-designed system does the opposite.
yr2012
matt jensen 2
Again?
wopri
A couple of days ago two Air Transat pilots were taken off the plane because they were drunk, also in Scotland if I remember right.
LoralThomas
Loral Thomas 3
Also couple days ago the Talon Air FO pulled off a charter flight in Michigan who tested 7 times the legal limit!
kerimparrot
Mike Williams 2
I hope it was quality Scotch. And did not "water" it down with some bottled soda. Vintage at least. I'm not a pro at much but have heard of quality scotch -the liquor.
PSUAth
would a 'neat' serving be acceptable?
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Sounds like Scotland's the place to be, must be a sale on drinks...
damavab
Thanks to police who had their eyes open.
lynx318
lynx318 1
"Téo drunk United Airlines Pilots where arrested in Glasgow"
Téo? Who else is drunk?
wopri
This is the work of the devil! No, joke aside, I typed two, and auto-correct changed it to Téo. Sounds strange? Really, it's not complicated. I write about 85% of the time in French and had forgotten to switch my tablet to English.
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
Beware that when you switch to English, your dictionary and spell checker follow.
The computer is not your friend.
lynx318
lynx318 1
Didn't notice til now but 'where' should have been 'were', my grammar radar needs rewiring.
allanrbowman
Allan Bowman 1
convicted drunken airline pilots ought to change careers and become crash test dummies.
damavab
Griff, Thank you for sharing that amazing story. Lyle you are a HERO you conquered what few people do.
Cadefoster
Cade foster 1
How about seeking help for your problems and not escaping into drugs/booze?
mattwestuk
Matt West 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

UAL Pilots Pulled for Being Drunk

Not that I am condoning this behavior...but if I faced a Transatlantic trip on a 757, I'd probably have a few before hand as well.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2016/08/29/united-pilots-suspected-being-drunk-arrested-glasgow/89546856/
jdrpc
Joao Ponces -3
What I said before! Reality is reality! Not the politically correct b/s they want you to swallow!
Pilots DO drink: Period!
Fire them all?????
allanrbowman
Allan Bowman 0
A good single malt is too good to pass up.
linbb
linbb -2
Old news has been submitted several days ago.
mattwestuk
Matt West 1
I did check but missed it. Apologies.
wopri
Could it be you are mistaken? There were two Air Transat pilots in a similar situation, also in Scotland, but when I posted this info it was barely a few hours old, so it could not have been submitted several days ago.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

joelwiley
joel wiley 8
The question is not how many alcohol induced aviation accidents have occurred, the question is how many have been avoided by the bottle-to-throttle rule enforcement.
jdrpc
Joao Ponces -5
How many?
joelwiley
joel wiley 7
It is hard to quantify a negative case. You could say that every successful flight with a sober crew as an accident avoided.

From: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a490324.pdf
A study from 2000-2007 found that of 2391 fatal accidents, 215 pilots (9%) had a history of alcohol offenses and 23 of them had alcohol in their systems at the time of the accident.

And another study:
https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/2010s/media/201113.pdf
PSUAth
Alcohol impairs the body. That takes a finite time to work out. I have no issue with telling a pilot they can't have alcohol in their system when they fly. I have no issue telling them they need to be 0% BAC 4 hours before they fly. If a pilot is off tomorrow, I have no problem with him/her having a drink after today's flight. If they want to get blackout drunk, well. they can. I might not be happy if I'm on their next flight. But if they can sober up and be clear-headed (well rested, no BAC, etc) with the ability to pilot the a/c to their fullest ability, then I have a hard time to not justify that.
jdrpc
Joao Ponces -3
I agree! "Alcohol impairs the body" That is why I do NOT drink!
Also, my stomach does not tolerate it!
But we live in a REAL World, not in a politically correct fantasia!
And the reality is MANY Pilots do drink, for the most varied reasons!
It has to be dealt with realism, not with proselitism...
carlsonj
James Carlson 4
So now it's an issue of "political correctness" to insist that pilots follow 14 CFR 91.17. Fascinating. Do tell me more.
fastroper
Cecil Clark 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

United Airlines Pilots Arrested After Allegedly Found Drunk on a Plane

Both the Captain and First Officer arrested Saturday by Scottish officials just before departure from Glasgow, Scotland to Newark, NJ.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/united-airlines-pilots-arrested_us_57c3456be4b085c1ff29d667

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