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Plane crash in Kentucky, young girl survives
Crash site is near Kentucky Lake. Was a PA-34 Seneca. Five were on board and four have died. a 7 year old girl survived and walked to nearby house. Lousy weather in the area. They had departed Tallahassee enroute to Mt Vernon, Illinois I believe. (www.wpsdlocal6.com) Más...Sort type: [Top] [Newest]
Holy ancient story, Batman!
My deepest condolances to the Gutzler family, particularly the heroic survivor Sailor. What a miricle!
I am particularly interested in the accident investigation as I own two light twin aircraft including a BE55 Baron and a Cessna 421 Golden Eagle. We don't know critical information related to the accident investigation including the position of the engine controls (throttle/props/mixture). The FlightAware data showing a last reported altitude of 2700 feet and 93 knots descending at 540 ft/min seems to indicate the loss of an engine. If that is indeed the case, was the inoperative engine "feathered"? If not, that unfeathered or "windmilling" engine would create a lot of drag, making it difficult if not impossible for the aircraft to climb or even maintain altitude. And if one engine was feathered, was the operating engine set to maximum power (throttle/prop/mixture full forward)? The Seneca II has counter-rotating propellers, so there is no "critical engine". Also, the Seneca, like many Piper Aircraft models has something called "Alt Air" - an engine control switch that allows warm air to bypass the engine air filter in case the primary induction path gets iced up - leading to the loss of engine power. What was the position of the Alt Air switches?
What we do know is that the reported ground temp at the time of impact was 40 deg F (4 C), which means the freezing level was around 2000'! Based on the FlightAware data (N81291), we also know that the aircraft cruising at 12,000 feet encountered areas of scattered precipitation across the entire state of Alabama. The Seneca II has no de-ice boots and no way to shed ice from its prop or wing/stabilizer leading edges. As the aircraft travelled across Tennessee, it had exited the icing conditions, but then encountered another relatively narrow band of precip in Kentucky that was ~20 miles wide extending East-West and narrowing to the East. The FlightAware weather image shows a relatively heavy area of precip (yellow cell) in the vicinity just prior to the crash. Key question: did the pilot have XM weather on-board, and was he aware of the extent of the precipitation? Did ATC inform him of the heavy precipitation in the vicinity of the crash site (a vector to the Northeast may have avoided the heavy precip if the FlightAware weather image is correct)?
The radar track data shows that the pilot's real troubles began when he descended below 6000' (radar data ceased 3 minutes after he descended below 6000'). When he got below 3000', things went bad real fast. Assuming he had sufficient fuel, perhaps a wiser choice would have been to stay at 8000-12,000 ft and continue on another 80 nmi (25-30 min) to KMVN, vectoring around or through the narrow band of precip. Well above the freezing level, the icing would have had much less of an impact. Even on one engine, he should have been able to limp the airplane home. If he had to get down in a hurry (out of gas), there was a towered airport (KPAH) just 20 miles to the west. But that would be heading into the weather. The choice to divert to a non-towered airport (M34) with no instrument approaches at night in icing conditions (likely freezing rain) was likely a fatal mistake.
I am particularly interested in the accident investigation as I own two light twin aircraft including a BE55 Baron and a Cessna 421 Golden Eagle. We don't know critical information related to the accident investigation including the position of the engine controls (throttle/props/mixture). The FlightAware data showing a last reported altitude of 2700 feet and 93 knots descending at 540 ft/min seems to indicate the loss of an engine. If that is indeed the case, was the inoperative engine "feathered"? If not, that unfeathered or "windmilling" engine would create a lot of drag, making it difficult if not impossible for the aircraft to climb or even maintain altitude. And if one engine was feathered, was the operating engine set to maximum power (throttle/prop/mixture full forward)? The Seneca II has counter-rotating propellers, so there is no "critical engine". Also, the Seneca, like many Piper Aircraft models has something called "Alt Air" - an engine control switch that allows warm air to bypass the engine air filter in case the primary induction path gets iced up - leading to the loss of engine power. What was the position of the Alt Air switches?
What we do know is that the reported ground temp at the time of impact was 40 deg F (4 C), which means the freezing level was around 2000'! Based on the FlightAware data (N81291), we also know that the aircraft cruising at 12,000 feet encountered areas of scattered precipitation across the entire state of Alabama. The Seneca II has no de-ice boots and no way to shed ice from its prop or wing/stabilizer leading edges. As the aircraft travelled across Tennessee, it had exited the icing conditions, but then encountered another relatively narrow band of precip in Kentucky that was ~20 miles wide extending East-West and narrowing to the East. The FlightAware weather image shows a relatively heavy area of precip (yellow cell) in the vicinity just prior to the crash. Key question: did the pilot have XM weather on-board, and was he aware of the extent of the precipitation? Did ATC inform him of the heavy precipitation in the vicinity of the crash site (a vector to the Northeast may have avoided the heavy precip if the FlightAware weather image is correct)?
The radar track data shows that the pilot's real troubles began when he descended below 6000' (radar data ceased 3 minutes after he descended below 6000'). When he got below 3000', things went bad real fast. Assuming he had sufficient fuel, perhaps a wiser choice would have been to stay at 8000-12,000 ft and continue on another 80 nmi (25-30 min) to KMVN, vectoring around or through the narrow band of precip. Well above the freezing level, the icing would have had much less of an impact. Even on one engine, he should have been able to limp the airplane home. If he had to get down in a hurry (out of gas), there was a towered airport (KPAH) just 20 miles to the west. But that would be heading into the weather. The choice to divert to a non-towered airport (M34) with no instrument approaches at night in icing conditions (likely freezing rain) was likely a fatal mistake.
Its nothing short of a miracle that the little girl walked out of that carnage in the middle of the night... RIP to the family.. Everyone, please fly safe. Don't push your envelope.. live to fly another day..
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I agree with you 100 percent.. I came here looking for a educated honest forum, but like most forums they are has beens or wannabes. But why do you waste your time engaging in dialogue with them.
I can understand your feeling about wannabee's but I have to assume envy or jealousy about the others, in that we have paid our dues and been there done that while ya'll are still going thru it. I'm glad I don't have to fly with people unwilling to learn.
you don't have time to fly with me your to busy posting you cat 1,2,3, and you paid your dues babble.you still flying the line?
I guess I'm a has been. I retired at the end of November with 19000+ hours flying 135 big iron.
congrats on the retirement, enjoy yourself.
I will thank you, but that now gives me plenty of time to post. LOL
Post away Wayne. Last I heard posting AND reading are optional. I luv this retirement stuff.