Suspected Chinese spy balloon found over northern U.S.

I can't find it tail number.

I heard Tom Sullivan (talk show host) say he has a number of flight tracking apps and a couple of them DO track this Chinese air space intruder.

Or, Mis-Oriented?

With balloons/aircraft you don't have to rely on orbital mechanics to wait until the satellite is over the area you're interested in taking pictures of. There is likely a satellite datalink stream unless China has a plan to recover it. If it's recoverable they could also use film cameras which offer greater resolution. It could also be a SIGINT platform.

We have OURS on Taiwan and South Korea

I can think of a few reasons. Any decent military-grade surveillance platform would have components that could destroy the platform. One can clear and purge data. (use overwrite methods to make memory and crypto keys theoretically unrecoverable) Yet this leaves the basic equipment and gathering methodologies in place. (For example, it would be very valuable to know if there are point-to-point tight beam laser transmitters or receivers on board (to the ground or space), because they are harder to detect and intercept.) AFWERX has this communication methodology on its wishlist, so I'm sure China does too.

Or, one can destroy data and equipment in a way to deny the enemy more useful information. That term is thrown around a lot, but in this context, it means to literally destroy the data and the equipment. Incinerate, disintegrate, pulverize to the point where it's imposable to reconstruct the platform. As you might guess, one way to do this is with high explosives. That does not always work. So, some school yard in Montana may wind up with literally a ticking bomb.

We know this platform is there. It's more valuable to try to determine what it is doing when one can take precautions against it than to take it down. Of course, there could be some outside-the-box use for it that has nothing to do with the military around there. Russia once hacked an airport to track one cell phone passing through it. I hope each stakeholder, no matter the functional area, is reviewing all the 'what if we were really the target' wargaming. If nothing else, hopefully it gets the 'good guys' to thinking and adapting to the threats our country faces going forward.

Michael, Good questions! I can help on at least the first one: (1) please see the Tucson (AZ) company which has also developed, and is developing further, balloon methods to allow a balloon to "loiter" over a chosen spot for extended periods, despite winds aloft, for remote-sensing operations, and previously, intended tourism. They have a website, and their name is Worldview (I'd post a URL but sure if URLs are welcome here); (2) I suppose, safety first! If you can avoid dropping something, it will be less litigious if you DO avoid it: "Safety First!"

I wish this thing sported an ADS-B system so we could all keep an eye on it. Maybe their next one will? Live and learn, let's hope? But, no: I heard that this balloon overflight is a violation of US airspace, so I guess that the more clandestine the flight, the better it serves its intended purpose(s), whatever that is/(are). Could just be a runaway scientific balloon?

Oh, I forgot to note, for (1) see Project Loon. They find pockets of wind to allow station holding and even movement from East to West at times. So, someone besides Google/Alphabet has put this research to use.

Take it out and let’s see what it is

why shoot it down, we have already hacked into it and the longer it stays, the more we know ! ! !

Or Russia

You state, "And China would get mad. Can't have China mad at us."

I've not seen anyone say this, so it's not an implied quote. Is this your attitude? You are worried it would make China mad? If not, I wonder whose attitude do you supposed to be echoing here?

Also, would the powers that be be afraid to shoot down an incoming missile for fear of "falling debris"?

I read what you wrote a few times trying to find a reason other than, 'just because'. List some reasons why it's a better course of action to shoot it down. I would like to hear them.

We do hang out in what China claims is their airspace to spy on them. CF: Spartly Islands

In this case, we assert our international rights of passage regardless of their claims. So far, they have only responded with target radars, lasers and dangerous flying. If they want to play this shell game of, 'we are sorry our balloon got lose', let's learn what we can via the novel incident and escalation. China plays differently than others. We need to learn how to play, not blindly rely on tactics learned 70 years ago. I assure you; this is not weakness and right out of 'The Art of War."

As of now, the US Secretary of State has postponed his visit to China until they provide more answers. That is answer enough.

Here is how Wired says that Google's Loon did it:

Loon’s balloons navigate by moving up and down, looking for the air currents that will take them where they need to be. To do that, they are not “hand-flown,” or manually directed by human beings. Instead, they follow complex algorithms that Candido’s team has spent years honing, a computer-borne approach to the world that produces flight paths that seem anything but elementary.

Looking, I see a few public datasets that would be helpful. Such as, Copernicus Atmosphere Monitoring Service. I would be surprised if the Loon project has not shared at least some of their scientific data. It does appear that the Chinese aircraft has a much larger solar surface area than the Loon balloons, so they may have a power budget for more active maneuvering fans.

Hahahaha. Good one. But maybe not so funny after all. Remember the Japanese incendiary balloons in WWII? Hmmm.

The order to shoot it down was given on Wednesday. Along with that order, the military was allowed to determine the safest way to recover it and the best way to gain the most intelligence value from it. Military command gave military facilities in its path notice on how best to protect their integrity from any information the balloon might gain. The balloon was shot down 8 miles off the coast of South Carlina.

Post like yours align more with interests of other countries than with America's.

The order to shoot it down was given on Wednesday. Along with that order, the military was allowed to determine the safest way to recover it and the best way to gain the most intelligence value from it. Military command gave military facilities in its path notice on how best to protect their integrity from any information the balloon might gain. The balloon was shot down 8 miles off the cost of South Carlina.

Post like yours align more with interests of other countries than with America's.

Is mettle actually

China Joe ? hmmm he is sucking up to the Chinese ?

Did he share a gear Chocolate Cake?

I think you are confused about which Administration

I know you are short of breath and one step closer to death so that explains your pre dementia loss of memory


I know it will be hard to et thru this but force yourself

Jan. 22, Twitter:

“One of the many great things about our just signed giant Trade Deal with China is that it will bring both the USA & China closer together in so many other ways. Terrific working with President Xi, a man who truly loves his country. Much more to come!”

Jan. 24, Twitter:



“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”

Jan. 29, Remarks at signing ceremony for the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement:

“And, honestly, I think, as tough as this negotiation was, I think our relationship with China now might be the best it’s been in a long, long time. And now it’s reciprocal. Before, we were being ripped off badly. Now we have a reciprocal relationship, maybe even better than reciprocal for us.”

Jan. 30, Fox News interview:

“China is not in great shape right now, unfortunately. But they’re working very hard. We’ll see what happens. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries.”

Feb. 7, Remarks at North Carolina Opportunity Now Summit in Charlotte, N.C.:

“I just spoke to President Xi last night, and, you know, we’re working on the — the problem, the virus. It’s a — it’s a very tough situation. But I think he’s going to handle it. I think he’s handled it really well. We’re helping wherever we can.”

Feb. 7, Twitter:

“Just had a long and very good conversation by phone with President Xi of China. He is strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus. He feels they are doing very well, even building hospitals in a matter of only days … Great discipline is taking place in China, as President Xi strongly leads what will be a very successful operation. We are working closely with China to help!

Feb. 7, Remarks before Marine One departure:

“Late last night, I had a very good talk with President Xi, and we talked about — mostly about the coronavirus. They’re working really hard, and I think they are doing a very professional job. They’re in touch with World — the World — World Organization. CDC also. We’re working together. But World Health is working with them. CDC is working with them. I had a great conversation last night with President Xi. It’s a tough situation. I think they’re doing a very good job.”



Feb. 10, Fox Business interview:

“I think China is very, you know, professionally run in the sense that they have everything under control,” Trump said. “I really believe they are going to have it under control fairly soon. You know in April, supposedly, it dies with the hotter weather. And that’s a beautiful date to look forward to. But China I can tell you is working very hard.”

Feb. 10, campaign rally in Manchester, N.H.:

“I spoke with President Xi, and they’re working very, very hard. And I think it’s all going to work out fine.”

Feb. 13, Fox News interview:

“I think they’ve handled it professionally and I think they’re extremely capable and I think President Xi is extremely capable and I hope that it’s going to be resolved.”

Feb. 18, remarks before Air Force One departure:

“I think President Xi is working very hard. As you know, I spoke with him recently. He’s working really hard. It’s a tough problem. I think he’s going to do — look, I’ve seen them build hospitals in a short period of time. I really believe he wants to get that done, and he wants to get it done fast. Yes, I think he’s doing it very professionally.”

Feb. 23, remarks before Marine One departure:

“I think President Xi is working very, very hard. I spoke to him. He’s working very hard. I think he’s doing a very good job. It’s a big problem. But President Xi loves his country. He’s working very hard to solve the problem, and he will solve the problem. OK?”

Feb. 26, remarks at a business roundtable in New Delhi, India:

“China is working very, very hard. I have spoken to President Xi, and they’re working very hard. And if you know anything about him, I think he’ll be in pretty good shape. They’re — they’ve had a rough patch, and I think right now they have it — it looks like they’re getting it under control more and more. They’re getting it more and more under control.”

Oops, the FlightAware info shows a US flag associated with this balloon over Georgia, so it's evidently not the Chinese balloon at all. Interesting that they're at about the same altitude, coincidence.

There are not many global treaties. I know of none aggreged upon by all nations. For example, there is the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, the 1968 Rescue agreement and the 1976 Registration Convention that covers space objects (both manned, unmanned, armed/unarmed). Interestingly, some of these agreements had their framework much like how we govern the Antarctic. Also, as far as I know, none of these agreements define were outer space actually start. Some would argue it's the Kármán line, but that is just a generally accepted scientific convention, and nothing else.

Like many things in our world, it's defined by the technical ability of a nation to perform the violence of action to enforce it. This is tempered by the character of the nation. We and a couple of peers, near-peer-level militaries have space denial weapons. Others don't. Thus, some agreement would be meaningless. You own what you have the temperament to defend or the temperament to allow trespass on. Allowing trespass is not always the weakest hand.

There are not many global treaties. I know of none aggreged upon by all nations. For example, there are the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, the 1968 Rescue agreement and the 1976 Registration Convention that covers space objects (both manned, unmanned, armed/unarmed). Interestingly, some of these agreements had their framework much like how we govern the Antarctic. Also, as far as I know, none of these agreements define were outer space actually start. Some would argue it's the Kármán line, but that is just a generally accepted scientific convention, and nothing else.

Like many things in our world, it's defined by the technical ability of a nation to perform the violence of action to enforce it. This is tempered by the character of the nation. We and a couple of peers, near-peer-level militaries have space denial weapons. Others don't. Thus, some agreement would be meaningless. You own what you have the temperament to defend or the temperament to allow trespass on. Allowing trespass is not always the weakest hand.

How do we know it’s a weather balloon ? Because the Chinese say so !

Sure. Nothing to see here. Just go on about your business sheep. Keep your heads down to the grass being fed to you.

What's new. The Right has been doing that for 3 years.

You mean like Trump inviting Russians into the White House unescorted by security.

I think you are confused about which Administration is in their pocket Sparky

Jan. 22, Twitter:

“One of the many great things about our just signed giant Trade Deal with China is that it will bring both the USA & China closer together in so many other ways. Terrific working with President Xi, a man who truly loves his country. Much more to come!”

Jan. 24, Twitter:



“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”

Jan. 29, Remarks at signing ceremony for the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement:

“And, honestly, I think, as tough as this negotiation was, I think our relationship with China now might be the best it’s been in a long, long time. And now it’s reciprocal. Before, we were being ripped off badly. Now we have a reciprocal relationship, maybe even better than reciprocal for us.”

Jan. 30, Fox News interview:

“China is not in great shape right now, unfortunately. But they’re working very hard. We’ll see what happens. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries.”

Feb. 7, Remarks at North Carolina Opportunity Now Summit in Charlotte, N.C.:

“I just spoke to President Xi last night, and, you know, we’re working on the — the problem, the virus. It’s a — it’s a very tough situation. But I think he’s going to handle it. I think he’s handled it really well. We’re helping wherever we can.”

Feb. 7, Twitter:

“Just had a long and very good conversation by phone with President Xi of China. He is strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus. He feels they are doing very well, even building hospitals in a matter of only days … Great discipline is taking place in China, as President Xi strongly leads what will be a very successful operation. We are working closely with China to help!

Feb. 7, Remarks before Marine One departure:

“Late last night, I had a very good talk with President Xi, and we talked about — mostly about the coronavirus. They’re working really hard, and I think they are doing a very professional job. They’re in touch with World — the World — World Organization. CDC also. We’re working together. But World Health is working with them. CDC is working with them. I had a great conversation last night with President Xi. It’s a tough situation. I think they’re doing a very good job.”

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Feb. 10, Fox Business interview:

“I think China is very, you know, professionally run in the sense that they have everything under control,” Trump said. “I really believe they are going to have it under control fairly soon. You know in April, supposedly, it dies with the hotter weather. And that’s a beautiful date to look forward to. But China I can tell you is working very hard.”

Feb. 10, campaign rally in Manchester, N.H.:

“I spoke with President Xi, and they’re working very, very hard. And I think it’s all going to work out fine.”

Feb. 13, Fox News interview:

“I think they’ve handled it professionally and I think they’re extremely capable and I think President Xi is extremely capable and I hope that it’s going to be resolved.”

Feb. 18, remarks before Air Force One departure:

“I think President Xi is working very hard. As you know, I spoke with him recently. He’s working really hard. It’s a tough problem. I think he’s going to do — look, I’ve seen them build hospitals in a short period of time. I really believe he wants to get that done, and he wants to get it done fast. Yes, I think he’s doing it very professionally.”

Feb. 23, remarks before Marine One departure:

“I think President Xi is working very, very hard. I spoke to him. He’s working very hard. I think he’s doing a very good job. It’s a big problem. But President Xi loves his country. He’s working very hard to solve the problem, and he will solve the problem. OK?”

Feb. 26, remarks at a business roundtable in New Delhi, India:

“China is working very, very hard. I have spoken to President Xi, and they’re working very hard. And if you know anything about him, I think he’ll be in pretty good shape. They’re — they’ve had a rough patch, and I think right now they have it — it looks like they’re getting it under control more and more. They’re getting it more and more under control.”

Or Jared's bone saw brigade friends coming to pay us a visit again ?

You know the "friends" who flew planes in to our buildings !!

NBC

The top 11 favors the Trump administration has done for Saudi Arabia
Wednesday's vetoes are the latest in a list of moves that aid the kingdom, which Trump says is a bulwark against Iran and a good customer for U.S. weapons.

Biden, too....

And the Dunce could not figure that out

What a clown ..funny except for the price we paid

Jan. 22, Twitter:

“One of the many great things about our just signed giant Trade Deal with China is that it will bring both the USA & China closer together in so many other ways. Terrific working with President Xi, a man who truly loves his country. Much more to come!”

Jan. 24, Twitter:



“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”

Jan. 29, Remarks at signing ceremony for the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement:

“And, honestly, I think, as tough as this negotiation was, I think our relationship with China now might be the best it’s been in a long, long time. And now it’s reciprocal. Before, we were being ripped off badly. Now we have a reciprocal relationship, maybe even better than reciprocal for us.”

Jan. 30, Fox News interview:

“China is not in great shape right now, unfortunately. But they’re working very hard. We’ll see what happens. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries.”

Feb. 7, Remarks at North Carolina Opportunity Now Summit in Charlotte, N.C.:

“I just spoke to President Xi last night, and, you know, we’re working on the — the problem, the virus. It’s a — it’s a very tough situation. But I think he’s going to handle it. I think he’s handled it really well. We’re helping wherever we can.”

Feb. 7, Twitter:

“Just had a long and very good conversation by phone with President Xi of China. He is strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus. He feels they are doing very well, even building hospitals in a matter of only days … Great discipline is taking place in China, as President Xi strongly leads what will be a very successful operation. We are working closely with China to help!

Feb. 7, Remarks before Marine One departure:

“Late last night, I had a very good talk with President Xi, and we talked about — mostly about the coronavirus. They’re working really hard, and I think they are doing a very professional job. They’re in touch with World — the World — World Organization. CDC also. We’re working together. But World Health is working with them. CDC is working with them. I had a great conversation last night with President Xi. It’s a tough situation. I think they’re doing a very good job.”

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Jobs blowout: What the employment report means for Biden and Powell
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The State Where the GOP Would Rather Lose Than Change
Jordan fires off first subpoenas against Biden admin
Senate Democrat joins GOP in thumping Biden over Chinese balloon response


Feb. 10, Fox Business interview:

“I think China is very, you know, professionally run in the sense that they have everything under control,” Trump said. “I really believe they are going to have it under control fairly soon. You know in April, supposedly, it dies with the hotter weather. And that’s a beautiful date to look forward to. But China I can tell you is working very hard.”

Feb. 10, campaign rally in Manchester, N.H.:

“I spoke with President Xi, and they’re working very, very hard. And I think it’s all going to work out fine.”

Feb. 13, Fox News interview:

“I think they’ve handled it professionally and I think they’re extremely capable and I think President Xi is extremely capable and I hope that it’s going to be resolved.”

Feb. 18, remarks before Air Force One departure:

“I think President Xi is working very hard. As you know, I spoke with him recently. He’s working really hard. It’s a tough problem. I think he’s going to do — look, I’ve seen them build hospitals in a short period of time. I really believe he wants to get that done, and he wants to get it done fast. Yes, I think he’s doing it very professionally.”

Feb. 23, remarks before Marine One departure:

“I think President Xi is working very, very hard. I spoke to him. He’s working very hard. I think he’s doing a very good job. It’s a big problem. But President Xi loves his country. He’s working very hard to solve the problem, and he will solve the problem. OK?”

Feb. 26, remarks at a business roundtable in New Delhi, India:

“China is working very, very hard. I have spoken to President Xi, and they’re working very hard. And if you know anything about him, I think he’ll be in pretty good shape. They’re — they’ve had a rough patch, and I think right now they have it — it looks like they’re getting it under control more and more. They’re getting it more and more under control.”

That was only a testing platform and the program was cancelled in 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1

He is in the WH and The POSOTUS will he headed to Sing Sing

Funded by Jared's Hedge fund

I think they will try a capture mission on the East Coast waters. The US has a high military presence there, especially the US Navy. Joint base Langley-Eustis has the F22 which has a published service ceiling of 65,000 feet and hopefully can approach the target undetected. Jam command-and-control to it, put holes in the balloon. Try to recover it, even with HC-130

So, let me get this clear. You admit that the US DoD has the capability to bring down the balloon. (if I'm right, that is what you are saying). Don't you think that China knows the US has the capability to remove this object with the 'best defense technologies' in the world?

As I stated, China is fully aware we did not remove this airship because of the lack of capability. I also don't believe they think we lack the resolve to do so.

Right now, there are many people in China with sleepless nights trying to figure out why the US DoD did not take your course of action. They seem to share a parallel set of worries as you.

So, I'm trying to find your source of worries if you are willing to articulate them.

We were allies and shared the data obtained with the Spanish. Apples and oranges mu friend.