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CDC mask mandate for travelers struck down by federal judge

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A federal judge in Florida struck down on Monday the Biden administration's mask mandate for airplanes and other public transport methods. (edition.cnn.com) Más...

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k1121j
k1121j 6
Who on earth are they asking to get that more then half want to wear masks on planes... I saw the videos looks like more then 75% dont.
mlloyd996
Mark Lloyd 4
I flew 4 segments last week...I would say more than 90% did not wear a mask. Some still did...and that's fine...but they need to stop demanding others wear a mask....
NF2G
David Stark 6
For those interested in the actual LEGAL basis for the decision, read the opinion in this case, which sets Supreme Court precedent for the travel mandate decision and for any future CDC mandates.

ALABAMA ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS, ET AL. v.
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND
HUMAN SERVICES, ET AL
tmpanther
The whole time we were wearing masks on planes, football stadiums, hockey arenas, basketball arenas and now baseball stadiums have thousands of people sitting shoulder to shoulder in too-small seats crammed in together and....no masks.
brakes172
bonnie rakes 17
if people are afraid, they can stay home. OR, they can wear as many masks as they want so they feel protected.
yamaha32177
CHARLES DUKE 0
Exactly, If your scared then stay at home.
sparkie624
sparkie624 31
Way to go and about time! These unrealistic mandates are outdated and is time to go!
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 9
My only wish was that people would enmasse throw the mask off at the same time and show they are true, free Americans and not subservient fools tamed by government edicts that had no effect except to show that the government will do what it takes to take away our freedom.
srobak
srobak 6
We as the free people of this nation must show that we will do whatever it takes to prevent the government from doing exactly that. It goes far well and beyond the synchronous removal and discarding of face diapers.
mbrews
mbrews 8
As Yogi Berra once said - It's not over until the fat lady sings.

Now 2 days later on April 20, CDC announces they are asking US Dept of Justice to APPEAL the blockbuster Florida federal ruling.

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/s0420-masks-public-transportation.html

No predictions here on the outcome. It's fully possible the Dept of Justice could punt, and decide NOT to appeal.
SteveCutchen
Steve Cutchen 23
The appeal is not about reestablishing the mandate. It's about reestablishing the CDC authority to implement a mandate in they way that they did.
srobak
srobak 13
the ability to generate mandates which breach constitutionality should not be established to any agency.
kjjmac
Karen McCullough 10
Yet a video was leaked from the CDC saying that masks DON'T work. All I know is that apparently I read that 77+% of the population is fully vaccinated, yet the CDC keeps putting up positivity rates from testing. So what? The symptoms would be mild. What's the point? It sure looks like fear-mongering at this point. I just got my second booster and I am DONE.
eyeguy2020
steve rubinstein -6
I think masks work, since they have been using them in operating rooms for the past 70 years or so. Next time you are on the table, don't have anyone remove their masks. They work better than nothing, not as good as being outside.
AAaviator
AAaviator 12
That's a common misconception. The covid-19 virus is incredibly small, between 0.06 and 0.14 microns. On the other hand, bacteria is much larger, and, not to be gross, found in spittle. The surgical mask is intended to block the much larger spittle laced bacteria from entering an open incision in the O.R. environment. Defenders of the mask will often recycle the same false premise about the equivalency of mask effectiveness used in an operating room (to block bacteria) vs. masks used to defend against (airborne) covid-19 virus particles. And even at that, the efficacy of masks used for that purpose depends on which expert, and which study one PREFERS to believe!
eyeguy2020
Sorry, recent studies, since the Covid issue has began on thousands of peiople, show that mask, even surgical ones, will allow through some virus particles, but it also stops some virus particles, speaking on probablity, any mask, lowers a person's rick of catching Covid, and even more important, causing someone else to get it. You are correct, that originally, it was for spittle and bacteria from the pulmonary tract, but lets not forget about the new experimant, millions of people using masks for years. It works, not great, but it works, and science is just a probablity, not anecdotal.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 4
the CDC and WHO disagree. Masks make NO STATISTICAL DIFFERENCE.
Do I need to post more links to studies - or can you find them?

So the question becomes, does the government have the right to mandate policies that disrupt the everyday activities of 100% of the population, which have been proven to have no material benefit?

The truth is, masks were just used for psychological impact. Had no one been wearing a mask for the last two years, and you had no exposure to television or the internet, there would have been NOTHING in the real world you could have pointed to, which indicated we were in a pandemic.
eyeguy2020
I respectfully disagree. Masks prevent infection. Once again, look at studies of thousands of school kids using masks, vs thousands of school kids not using masks. These are not in question. There were studies at the beginning of Covid that were not as easy to confirm effectivity. Science is not absolute. But the preponderance of evidence is usually correct. Outlying studies showuing the opposite need to be discounted. So, if you consider the preponderance of the evidence, then your argument falls apart. Sorry, your argument is based on politics, as opposed to scientific analysis. The huge number of added deaths around the world are due to a pandemic, Not sun spots or aliens.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 3
These "outlier" studies are exactly what you appear to be quoting (though no source given).
There are plenty of other outlier studies that show just the opposite.

Is the CDC an outlier? Then why has the media been touting them as the de facto authority for the past two years?

Please see the section on "Face Masks" about a third of the way down the page:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

I'm not claiming masks do absolutely nothing, but they make NO STATISTICAL DIFFERENCE. If you happened to be spared exposure to Sars-CoV2 (or any other airborne virus) it was out of sheer, random luck.

So this overreach of the federal government is not based on facts. Masks do not prevent a respiratory virus from spreading through the population.

Practically everyone in China was already in the habit of wearing masks at the time this "pandemic" broke out - so why didn't that stop it from spreading?
AAaviator
AAaviator 1
Sorry yourself! By your exploiting the words "recent studies" and using them to settle a disagreement is just empty rhetoric. There have been all kinds of studies since the Wuhan virus traveled the globe, and the statistics just don't support your position, but go ahead and wear a mask (or 3) if it psychologically makes you feel protected. The one thing I have learned about this debate is that for people like you who make covid, and covid protocol a religion, there is no way to break through their cult like confirmation biases in order to present any information, perspective or FACTS that is counter to their zealous covid orthodoxy. And as such, no doubt you're already spring-loaded to reject, rebut, and rebuff all of this with more of your zealotry. Well knock yourself out, and have at it!
sparkie624
sparkie624 6
They use them in Operating Rooms to shield their face from Blood and other matter that may come out of the patient... They work well to keep Blood Spatter from your face, they do not work well to keep a Germ from sneaking through!
AAaviator
AAaviator 1
Yep, that too...
mutrock
Mark Kortum 9
As a Yankees fan we need to set the record straight. Yogi was not the one doing the fat shaming. His actual quote was: "It aint over till it's over."
IAOA
IAOA 7
haha --that is right Mark. That IS what Yogi said. My favorite Yogi-ism? When you see a fork in the road, take it. LOL. Makes no sense. Gotta love Yogi.
rboddy91
Rich Boddy 9
LMAO @ the idea of "It's not over until the fat lady sings" is actual fat shaming. Holy shit man what a reach, how many gold medals do you in mental gymnastics?
srobak
srobak 6
the whackadoo snowflakes will go to any length to be offended by literally anything
Airgoddess1
Airgoddess1 -2
Tomato. Tomotto.
Nooge
John Nooge 0
Goddess Goulish
srobak
srobak 0
no.... completely different meaning and context, not to mention it undermines the point of the argument.
topgunnh
Peter McGrath 15
This shows how brain-dead and out of touch with reality the CDC and DOJ are. They still think people believe them when they say "This is for your safety!"
xhackr
mike ma 5
Pro tip - Yogi never said that.
srobak
srobak 3
they can appeal all the want... it's not getting overturned.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson -7
You a member of the supreme court? Wow. We are honored.
srobak
srobak 5
the supreme court rules following the constitution. you should be honored that they do - otherwise you would be even deeper under the bootheel of tyranny than you already are.

if you believe so passionately that it will be overturned, then put your money where your mouth is and put a paycheck up against that claim. I will.
bhwms
Bryan Williams 5
The Court went to great lengths to walk through the statutory requirements - the CDC needed to at least claim why they needed to impose (in this case extend) the mandate, and show justification. They didn't. Which is weird because they have done it before. Then they need to follow the procedures in the Administrative Procedure Act, and they didn't. Again, weird since they had done it before. Almost as if the CDC is being run by amateurs instead of professionals.

DoJ has a problem - if they pursue this, they will most likely get an adverse appellate decision, and then they are in a real bind.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 0
Never said it would be overturned. Read, think, react. In that sequence please.
srobak
srobak -2
OK then... you should now better than to pick pointless fights like that. It's not the first time I have had to show you the flaws in your presentations of double-talk. You sabre rattling simply for the sake of doing so reflects that you are only interested in hearing yourself talk - and not having any actual point in what it is that you are saying.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

dnorthern
dnorthern 8
Seriously? You still believe that collusion. Be that has been repeatedly debunked?

Yet you support that fool who blamed an innocent person for his wife’s death?

You should get psychiatric help for your delusion
Nooge
John Nooge -4
And I would wager a paycheck but mine to yours is 10 to 1
srobak
srobak 2
You net 134k a month? That explains your whackadoo talk - just like the rest of the out-of-touch elites.
Nooge
John Nooge -2
No he knows Ginny Thomas ,,,she decides
srobak
srobak 0
I see you don't understand how the judicial process works...
KineticRider
Randy Marco -7
Definitely is getting overturned!

The Fed Judge is a COMPLETE IDIOT with NOT one day of experience in a trial. Typical of the dumpster trumpster to appoint a COMPLETE IDIOT... just like him.

The ABA was/is HIGHLY CRITICAL of her being unqualified..... but the 'TARDS on this forum are predictably CLUELESS, as always!
Nooge
John Nooge -6
I guess not

They will get this political tools ruling overturned
dnorthern
dnorthern 7
Your comment is impressive.

Impressive as you provided no basis for your argument nor any reason you disagree with the ruling.

Plain vanilla, emotionally based, factually lacking. Qualities the ruling class loves in a useful idiot
mwtshv1959
michael totty 29
This well-reasoned decision by Judge Mizelle reminds us we are a Republic whose laws flow from the Constitution and not the whims or tyranny of government agencies or individuals.
clarify
clarify -6
I'm guessing you're not a lawyer. I'm not. But a couple of errors in your comment. First, mask mandates are not a whim, the evidence that they're effective at limiting spread of an airborne virus such as COVID is substantial (a frequent poster here's frequent citing of the so-called "Danish study" notwithstanding). I've perused Mizelle's ruling and she relies on the narrowest possible interpretation of the word "sanitize" and its various forms to achiever her apparent goal of striking down the mask mandates involving travel. Second, the Constitution does not prohibit Congress from empowering federal administrative agencies to manage large swaths of administrative law. Congress, after all, is not expert in public health, the control of disease, the intricacies of aviation, and so forth, so they've created agencies to manage the details of all these.
mwtshv1959
michael totty 18
The effectiveness of masks is not the central question of this case. The central question is did CDC act in a legal manner in issuing the mandate. Judge Mizell considered at length the meaning and context of the term "sanitize" at the time the law was written and as it appears within the law. Judge Mizell at length discussed and annotated within her decision the reasons CDC acted illegally; thus making the mandate not enforceable. Congress can not empower any agency to violate the Constitution or laws flowing from the Constitution. The judicial branch has the responsibility to review and strike down illegal agency actions thus protecting the rights of all citizens of the Republic.
clarify
clarify 1
The effectiveness of masks directly relates to your accusation that the CDC's mandate was a whim.

Let's also remember that the CDC, which Congress created, is the Center for Disease Control. It's all about controlling disease. And the idea that masks do not (cannot) *sanitize* the breath exhaled by someone who's shedding virus by trapping and containing liquid droplets that contain the virus is preposterous. I think people broadly understand that. After all this law, passed in 1944, post-dated the 1918 influenza outbreak during which masks were commonly warn to control disease and prevent its spread.

Like much other analysis I've read, it seems that Judge Mizelle wanted to strike it down and twisted her reasoning around the word "sanitize" to achieve her aim. That's the very definition of an activist judge.
mwtshv1959
michael totty 12
Let me clarify and reiterate; CDC was found by Judge Mizelle to have committed an illegal act in the manner in which it issued the mandate. Read the entire decision page 1 thru page 59. Effectiveness of masks was not the central question; the process CDC used in issuing the mandate is the central question. CDC was found by Judge Mizelle to have improperly followed the process and the fruit of improperly following the process is an illegal act and was vacated and remanded back to CDC for further action. CDC now has the opportunity to either heed the judge's decision and properly follow the process or appeal to a higher court.
clarify
clarify -5
I can reiterate as well -- you chose to use the word "whim".

Second, pages 7 to 31 of the ruling focus on the meaning of the word "sanitize", which directly speaks to how the masks operate to control disease and its spread.
mwtshv1959
michael totty 2
Whim was used in reference to government agencies and individuals without referencing any specific agency or individual.

BTW pages 20-25 of the decision establishes the context of the term sanitation within the law. The subpart referencing sanitation was found by Judge Mizelle to apply to property interests with other subsections dealing with individuals. Judge Mizelle in the totality of her decision established an illegal process was utilized in issuing the mandate which was vacated and remanded for further action.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 7
Covid does not travel through droplets. It's airborne.
Yes, masks were worn in 1918 and made no difference in containing the virus. This is why we've never been advised to wear masks during flu season ever since. They don't work at stopping viruses.

In addition, practically no one dies from a respiratory virus. They die of secondary complications (usually bacterial pneumonia) for which we now have antibiotics that were non existent in 1918.

People don't seem to believe that when you tell them, but here's a paper from the NIH.
The vast majority of deaths in 1918 were from Bacterial pneumonia:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/bacterial-pneumonia-caused-most-deaths-1918-influenza-pandemic

Paragraph 6 sums it up pretty well.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson -1
To your second point, , , , a "don't blame the shooter, blame the gun" approach is turning a disrespectful blind eye to the nearly 1 million (1,000,000) Americans who died due to C-19 or, , , , associated complications if that makes you feel better. 1 million. 1 million. And still, you choose to hide behind convenient wording. 1 million. That is a lot of mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, friends, neighbors, children, and associates that may take exception to your position if they could.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 8
We're going to find out sooner or later that no where near 1 million people died of Covid.
You conveniently discount the evidence that hundreds of thousands of people died as a direct result of the government response to this "crisis".

To my second point: How many people were diagnosed (or misdiagnosed) with Covid and told "There's nothing we can do for you. Go home and take Tylenol"? This was the prevailing sentiment, especially early on. I think we're going to find out that the vast majority of these "cases" were actually flu, bronchitis or pneumonia that could have been treated but weren't.


Influenza did not disappear. It just got diagnosed as Covid by a fraudulent test.
Remember, hospitals were paid enormous sums of money for each Covid "case" they treated. Even more money if the patient was put on a respirator (needed or not) and yet more if the patient died.


How many people were turned away from routine health care that may have prevented illness in the fist place?

How many people died because life saving surgeries or cancer treatments were missed?

Suicide skyrocketed during 2020.
Drug overdoses skyrocketed.

95% of people who supposedly "died from Covid" had an average of four serious health complications to begin with. Regardless of what killed them, they were counted as covid deaths. They told you this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZenWSYEcbY

So, I's sorry - this notion that a million people died from a virus is simply a lie.
srobak
srobak 1
far more people die to heart disease and cancer every.single.year for the last several decades than do to covid. where is your outrage for that? especially since it is the fda, pharma, offshored food processing and the legislatures who's actions are directly contributable to that state?
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson -6
And she was appointed by ? ? ? ?
dnorthern
dnorthern 7
Relevancy?

Actually the prior guy did better than the current boob in the wh.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 2
How telling. So, If an Obama-appointed judge had made the ruling, you'd be okay with it?
If that's not what you mean, then why mention it?
victorbravo77
victorbravo77 -4
Judge Mizell is rated "unqualified" by the American Bar Association. Appointed by the former guy. You're making quite the leap there.
xhackr
mike ma 11
You're either being purposely obtuse or you simply believe what people tell you.

The American Bar Association said Judge Mizelle was unqualified because she was 4 years short of what they consider a minimum number of years of experience. And that requirement is not substantiated in law. You missed the part where the American Bar Association praised her, stating she has a "very keen intellect, a strong work ethic and an impressive resume."

If you want to pretend to understand the subject matter, don't attack the person, attack the foundation on which her legal decision was based.
mwtshv1959
michael totty 5
dnorthern and Tim Dyck there does seem to be many individuals on this thread that prefer to attack Judge Mizelle's credibility and not read and discuss her decision in its entirety.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 10
Yes it’s the age old “attack the messenger” technic often employed when someone is unable or unwilling to debate the message. When I was involved in debate clubs it was pretty much assumed that as soon as someone resorted to attacking the messenger they had lost the debate. It’s lazy and ignorance rolled up together.
As for the topic at hand I read the ruling and although I am not a lawyer it seems to be well written. I found no glaring errors but I will leave it to the legal experts to analyze.
larrykreuger
Larry Kreuger -1
Critiquing a judge or decision rendered is NOT ‘shooting the messenger’. It is perfectly valid to question the credentials of a decision maker, especially in this case where we know she was selected by Florida Gov DeSantis’ operatives because of her outlier status. If, on the other hand, an aide to the judge handed out her decision and someone critiqued the aide….that would be a legitimate instance of “shooting…etc.”
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 2
Like questioning Katanji Jackson Brown on her rulings?
srobak
srobak 2
got some news for you - she is not the one on outlier status.
dnorthern
dnorthern 2
Donald triggers your pea brain
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 4
Trump was right. He was the best thing that ever happened to the fake news - and leftists in general. Neither of them would have talking points on any subject if they couldn't use him as the fallback reason for everything they don't like.
mutrock
Mark Kortum 0
Nice of you to give Victobravo77 the benefit of the doubt.
augerin
Dave Mathes -1
...yea, you noticed that too...
sweeper239
sweeper239 -1
trump just wanted another Lacky that would follow the trump beliefs. Shame these are life appointments.No wonder ever Democrat opposed her confirmation !
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 5
Says the liberal idiot who is too stupid to understand cloth masks DO NOT WORK.

Nor does the government have the power to push such mandates on individuals, specifically the CDC. It is not within their statutory power.

Get it?
sweeper239
sweeper239 -1
Sure glad you were not in charge when polio vaccine came out. Or the Measles !
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 5
The polio vaccine went through nearly fifteen years of research, testing and trials.

Your beloved mRNA vaccine had less than eight months in total. And, the FDA attempted to block access to the data submitted for licensing.

Educate yourself, fool.
waynej007
waynej007 4
How many people die each year from Cancer related to tobacco (including 2nd hand smoke). Lots more than from covid, yet the government does nothing about eliminating tobacco.... why too many people's pockets get infused with cash. Another thing, how many politicians own pfizer, J&J, etc dosing out the covid shots? Also, why did bonehead biden order and distribute all the free covid home tests from China???
Cleffer
Cleffer -3
Here here!
sparkie624
sparkie624 5
I would say with the Mask Mandate listed, that will increase passenger traffic... I for one would rather drive 8 hours than to ride with a mask on for 2 hours.
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 4
Planes are already full. I wore a mask for 10 days straight while in Europe since you had to have a negative COVID test to come back to the United States.
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
One reason for that is that there are a lot of planes parked that are ready to fly if there were more Pax and Crews available.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

srobak
srobak 5
guess what? even when everyone was masked (and forced to stand 6 feet apart at checking and TSA and boarding and sitting in the gate lounge - and then sardined into planes while rubbing elbows and shoulders) flight attendants and pilots got sick and planes were parked. surprise!
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 13
Will flight attendants and Pilots get sick just because there is no mask mandate? That's an assumption with no basis in fact. With all we have learned about the SAR-CoV-2 virus we know that masks are not effective in stopping it so why are you still fighting against the science?

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 14
Even the CDC has stated in it's own studies that masks make no statistical difference (less than .2%) despite what Rochelle Walensky and Fauci say on television. They can't even get their own data straight.

Here's a comparison of states with and without mandates. Masks made no practical difference at all:

https://www.city-journal.org/the-failed-covid-policy-of-mask-mandates
kjjmac
Tell that to Brian. Let's face it. Some people will wear their masks FOREVER! I am fine with that. Just don't dictate what I can do anymore, especially since I use got my SECOND booster. If I get it, so what? Mild symptoms.
SteveCutchen
Steve Cutchen 3
https://www.nytimes.com/article/covid-masks-protection-stats.html

The article contains links to a ton of science on masks.
Cleffer
Cleffer 10
Not according to real science and not an inaccuracy that simply supports your point.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 8
Then why didn’t they reduce COVID 19 rates were they were mandated? You can present all the you tube and Facebook studies you want but you cannot refute reality, if masks worse COVID 19 would have been stopped in it’s tracks in jurisdictions that mandated them.
Cleffer
Cleffer 6
You're arguing with the wrong guy. I'm saying masks do not work. And if they do, then those that CHOOSE to wear them should be fine.
dnorthern
dnorthern 6
You are correct. The only effective mask is a PROPERLY fitted n95 or kn95 mask with two behind the head (not earloops) elastic bands.

The fit must be tight to the face (glasses fog?, the mask ain’t fitted)

Anything less I has marginal effectiveness
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 6
Wile you are correct on the fit one thing you missed was it must be a "medical Grade" N95/KN95. A standard N95 only filters particle and cannot filter anything as small as an airborne coronavirus. A medical grade mask uses a coating on the fiber to either trap or kill biocontaminants. I am familiar with the two models of Medical Grade respirators 3m makes, the Model 1860 and the Model 1870+, there are others on the market that I have no experience with and therefor cannot give advice on but I am reasonably confident that they would perform the same way.
If your going to wear a mask at least wear one that will work reasonably well. But since airborne coronaviruses are so small 3M states that these respirators are not suitable for protection against them. Due to the size of filtration needed you need to move to a H10 or better respirator which makes inhaling a bit more difficult so you are best moving to a powered air purifying respirators (PAPR), imagine the cost of fitting and supplying the entire public with PAPRs...
Nooge
John Nooge 0
Imagine the cost of all those people who did not take the vax ?
srobak
srobak 4
Didn't take the vax, and didn't mask up. Didn't cost me a dime - and certainly a lot less stress and loss of liberty and control over my own body than it cost all the lemmings.
dilkie
dilkie 0
My wife and I wore P-100 respirators until we got vaccinated. After that? We're vaccinated, so no need to wear a mask at all anymore.. I think that's the crux of this whole argument.

Protect yourself, that's YOUR responsibility and it's your decision as to what level and form that takes.
srobak
srobak 4
uh huh.... take a guess how many other injected (not vaccinated) people got covid anyhow? The jab did nothing. The mask did nothing. 81 million reported cases in the US. Several more million un-reported. It's been over 750 days.... pretty much everyone has been exposed. It's time to live life back to normal.
kjjmac
Well said!
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
I will be sitting next to your wife next time she flies, chatting non-stop about anything and everything with one notable exception: I have ebola. Please keep in mind who is at fault when her eyes start bleeding two days later.

There have always been inconsiderate, self-centered people in this world who lack perspective. I get that. What I don't get is why you're so proud of it.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 2
COVID-19 is not Ebola. Over98% of people who catch COVID-19 have a complete recovery were as over 50% of people who catch Ebola die. Your comparing apples to hand grenades.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
Sorry I was responding to Brian. I will try again
srobak
srobak 0
actually if you look at the thread - he was replying to the person who said they do work.
kjjmac
Exactly!
Nooge
John Nooge -2
And Cleffer ..your medical credentials are ?

Just sayin why I should follow your recommendation
srobak
srobak 1
now now - don't go confusing the issue with facts
kjjmac
Lol. But what's the point if 3/4 of the population is already fully vaccinated? Anyone getting it will experience only mild symptoms so at this point I feel as if it is solely fear-mongering by the Left.
waynej007
waynej007 2
Show us the science that says covid stops at the border, especially on 5/23!!!
srobak
srobak 2
ohhhh that must be why the pilots and crew and passengers were getting sick and that the highest contagion rates of covid were during mask mandates. got it.
Nooge
John Nooge -2
Yeah you got it from alex jones right ?
srobak
srobak 2
I wouldn't touch him with yours. Try thinking for yourself. It's a thing.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
Then why didn’t they reduce COVID 19 rates were they were mandated? You can present all the you tube and Facebook studies you want but you cannot refute reality, if masks work COVID 19 would have been stopped in it’s tracks in jurisdictions that mandated them
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 4
Maskoholics are simply not capable of that kind of reasoning, Tim.
It's a question they can only answer with flawed logic.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson -2
to which you are an equal adopter.
srobak
srobak 2
demonstrable history is not flawed logic. it is reality.
airfrere
Mark Schenk 2
How do you know that COVID rates wouldn't have been even higher without the mask mandate? No one ever said that masks were 100% effective so we knew some people would get infected even if they were wearing masks.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 4
Because we had states (and other countries) where there were no mandates. That's called a "control". Go look at the chart I posted earlier in this thread.
srobak
srobak 3
because they were not higher in states, cities, communities and venues which didn't have the mandate.
srobak
srobak 1
planes are full because there are less flying because demand is down and pilot & crew shortage is up, along with flight cancellations. the commercial air industry is not even back to 50% of pre-covid rates. Airlines don't make money flying around half-empty planes.
charlie02vy
About time that people learned not the afraid of air, again.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson -5
Thanks for the clinical contribution.
srobak
srobak -2
thanks for the pointless commentary
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 0
srobak
srobak -1
Yes, you indeed are. Staying with the pointless pointillism afterall, eh?
joy99708
Joy Miller 11
It's about time! Unfortunately this administration is all about control and are trying to reverse this.
lefe108
Mike Ellzey 7
It's about time!!!
zuluzuluzulu
zuluzuluzulu 2
Dont you hate getting seated and the person next to you looks sick as a dog? That's how my luck runs. That's why I wear a Breath 99 mask. It works so well that it wont matter if my seat mate is sick.
mlloyd996
Mark Lloyd 2
People can still wear a mask if they want. I flew last Tuesday without a mask and it was great. I have flown this whole time through the pandemic...enough that I earned DM on Delta both years (2020 and 2021). I've had enough with the stupid masks. You want to wear one...go ahead...but stop demanding that I have to wear one.
spud49
Tom Wilson 4
Mandates are the purview of kings and dictators. If the government thinks its citizens should wear masks, let it go through the process and pass a LAW.
The longest journey begins with the first step.
LRPenner
Lonnie Penner 3
For those of you who want to keep wearing your masks, come up north here to Canada where you still need to wear a mask AND be vaxed to fly. Be grateful for your freedom there. Ours is disappearing very rapidly under this dictatorship. My whole family and I got the Wuhan Red Death and it was a bit tough for a bit. And now we're supposedly immune, but still not allowed to fly. Masks do NOT work unless, like others have stated, it's a properly fitted medical N95.
WigzellRM
Ralph Wigzell 3
Yes! Hopefully the scam of the decade is going to be struck down just like the ongoing scam of the last decade, global warming was it?
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 6
The mask is the 21st century blankey for all the insecure Karen-o-crats that know they know best for all of us.
aurodoc
aurodoc 4
Well Here is the bottom line with mask wearing.
If the guy sitting next to you farts and you can smell it your mask is worthless.
Fastform
Archie Duiker -1
Not true. Smell doesn't travel like water droplets do.
aurodoc
aurodoc 3
Most people wear a flimsy paper surgical mask half on or nursing a diet coke for 45 minutes with the mask off. The only real protection is an N95 mask correctly fit. Every year I go through a fit examination in a smell chamber to make sure the size and fit is correct. Yes droplets carry the virus but the way people wear a mask on a plane won't stop it.
IAOA
IAOA 5
There is a bigger picture going on folks. Fear controls people. Covid--Fear. Food shortage--Fear. Ukraine/Russia--Fear. Bird Flu-Fear. Man Made Climate Change--fear. Wokism--Fear.

Get it??

Time to think for yourselves and not let social media /MSM tell you how to think and what to do (and definitely don't let Fauci tell you what to do!!).
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson -5
Another voice from the conspiracy mob. Listen, a pandemic happened and millions of people died. It exposed the flaws of society, science, and politics which when combined, make for troubling times. Accept that basic fact, do the best you can, and hold on. Everything is just f*cked up right now. Hold on, time will continue to move on and things will get better. Eventually. Humans can't control everything and certain societies/countries have difficulty not being in control.
bhwms
Bryan Williams 5
What you say is largely true, but there is an element of those in power using the circumstance to consolidate more power to them. "Never let a crisis go to waste."

How else can you explain the same government agency saying that, sure, the public health crisis is over so you can stop Title 42 enforcement at the border, while at the same time, trying to impose a mask mandate for air travelers saying we are in a public health crisis? Or dissemination of narratives & talking points pushing things in the name of "science" when if you read the studies they cite they don't say what they say they do?

I try not to adhere to conspiracies, but I cannot ignore human nature and the desire of some to impose ideology instead of science-based & Constitutional-based policy.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 1
Completely correct. Now you've probably gone and caused quite a bit of cognitive dissonance in few people, Bryan.

my only disagreement is that conspiracies exist - and they really don't even try to hide it.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 3
I love people who throw out the word "conspiracy" every time they encounter a concept they don't agree with - or more likely, simply know nothing about.

It absolutely IS about fear. You are not very familiar with history, apparently. Anyone who thinks all of these "safety measures" were about containing a virus is delusional.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220115000341/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/14/scientists-admit-totalitarian-use-fear-control-behaviour-covid/

Are you watching what's going on in Shanghai right now? You can't possibly think their actions are about Covid.
Have you kept up with what's happening in Canada or Australia?

Covid is a Virus alright - a mind virus.
It's an agenda. You should pay attention to what people at Davos and World Economic Forum talk about. These are the people who *actually* run governments.
srobak
srobak 1
if you sit idly by and wait for others to do something then not only will it not get better - but it also will not go the way which is right for you. you need to take an active role in guiding your future and protecting yourself and your family from both disease and tyranny - and a million other things in between. "Holding on" does not make anything better - and more often than not - it makes them significantly worse. Take an active, decisive, aggressive and controlling role in controlling your immediate world around you. Only you can save you - nobody is going to do it for you, and especially not this or any other government. If you prefer to be submissive and wait for someone else to do what is your responsibility to do - then you have no place nor right to complain or object afterwards.

Even if you go down - you'd do best to go down swinging.
NF2G
David Stark 3
Yes, there was a pandemic. Yes, millions of people died during that time. But, the connection between most of those deaths and COVID-19 is highly suspect. There were financial incentives for classifying just about everything as COVID-related.
srobak
srobak 1
yes I know that - but why were you replying to me? that has nothing to do with what i posted
C172Rpilot
C172Rpilot 6
Happy travels are here again!!! It's always been about control.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

NF2G
David Stark 3
Activist, unqualified civilian totally misses the point of the ruling.
sparkie624
sparkie624 7
With that statement, can you state your medical qualifications from a professional point of view as to why the Judge is wrong and you are right?
mutrock
Mark Kortum 6
The bottom line is people like Brian James believe what they are told by their government and the new s media. They are willing to trade personal freedom for promises of safety and security. Others, like you, me, and the judge in this case prefer to live in a place where we get to make decisions for ourselves.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 4
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-Benjamin Franklin
bdjam
Brian James -4
I don't have medical qualifications but there have been plenty of papers written by people who do. The judge has no medical qualifications either. That's why her decision would be more acceptable if she had at least looked at some data or had heard from some witnesses.

But she didn't. She made a science based decision without consulting anyone of science.
mbrews
mbrews 14
Big differences of opinion on this one. Some people are making arguments about effectiveness of masks. And "individual freedoms " Reading the article, I contend the court's ruling did NOT involve scientific, or public health considerations AT ALL. ( But it probably should have )

The case was NOT about any public health OUTCOMES of the ruling. It only concerned the CDC's AUTHORITY to issue mandates.

A quote from from the linked article --

" US District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle said the mandate was unlawful because it exceeded the statutory authority of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and because its implementation violated administrative law. "
xhackr
mike ma 5
Lead with you have no medical training or legal training. If you understood that the decision made here was based on law and not physiology, you have a better understanding of why people laugh at you.

> “She made a science based decision without consulting anyone of science.”

lol Cite that.

And you're making decisions and statements with no legal foundation, having no functional understanding of how the process works
jbsimms
James Simms -1
Sleep @ a Holiday Inn last night?
srobak
srobak -1
best post of the thread! lol
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 5
How did you handle flying before the pandemic? Go back to do doing that.
Seriously, the pandemic (if you believe there ever was one) is over.

It was and is being perpetuated with a faulty test that cannot tell you anything about infection or whether whatever it detects will even make you sick.
xhackr
mike ma 3
Your inability to comprehend the law and how it's applied is hilarious.
Cleffer
Cleffer 4
No one said you cannot wear a mask. If masks work, why are you worried?
bdjam
Brian James 4
Because masks work better when everyone is wearing them. Why are you even asking that question after two years of pandemic?
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 6
Hey! My umbrella won't work if you don't use yours!
dnorthern
dnorthern 3
The train boards to the left. It will take you to safety
srobak
srobak -1
yours will work just as effectively if you double up, as lord fauci has told you to do. it will make up for those who do not wear them.
maltesefalcn
This forum thread has turned into a fascinating display of tribalism and confirmation bias.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 4
Kinda reflects society as a whole. Amazing what a little pandemic can do.
maltesefalcn
Eh, it’s been like this for much longer than that. I think social media lays bare the wide divide that’s been growing for a long time.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 2
The pandemic acted as an accelerant with social media allowing for exponential stupidity to flourish.
srobak
srobak 0
couldn't agree more - and there you are as the poster-child of it.
srobak
srobak 2
In 1996 during the dawn of the commodity internet I was asked for a newspaper (remember those?) interview about what affect the community internet sites (at the time forums, bbses, chatrooms and newsgroups - long before the term "social media") was going to have on people. I was asked about this because I was in the industry at the time and actively involved in the technologies which were rampantly expanding the accessibility to the internet.

I said it would make people anti-social in real life, cause massive magnification in the divides between people and their beliefs, historically corrupt governments and perpetuate lies on any and every subject matter known to man, and in the end be responsible for so much social chaos that it would result in a complete and total breakdown of all societal norms and devolve society and humankind as a whole.

I was right on the money - and those things scared the hell out of me so much that I left the industry and took to the skies instead, as I knew that when it came time to check out I could simply fly away - and either get somewhere nobody else was, or nose-down into the earth or ocean when we reach the state of World War Z.

We are heading towards an internet-driven collapse of all of society - and we were already barreling down the tracks before obama, trump, covid, biden, systemic racism & equity [sic] and covid. All of that simply strapped a gigantic booster rock on the train - and we are now heading to that global, societal demise at the speed of fiber optic light.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 3
You're quite right, srobak - but don't give up hope. More people are waking up to the BS than you might think. It will turn around.
srobak
srobak 2
I sure hope so.... but that is a BIG ship to turn around - and would need probably twice as long to right as it has taken to go wrong. That's not time most people have, nor that society as a whole can afford.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 2
I'm a die hard optimist so I agree with Michael.
People can change but first we need to decide what we need to change within ourselves. Are we going to follow the herd and become rude obnoxious jerks or are we going to remain civil and use a few manners. If we choose to be better people and work on our own manners then the next step is to try to influence others to do the same. That's tough because many people either don't realize how rude they have become or just like being rude.
Which way you decide to go is up to you...
waypoint66
David Rice -1
In love with yourself much?
srobak
srobak 1
nope - just pointing out the facts and reality, and that anyone with an ounce of sense almost 30 years ago could see it coming. If after all this time and all that has been demonstrated you still don't see it - then not only are you part of the problem, but you will also be one of the first causalities to it.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 2
The whole site is getting worse as time goes by. When I joined it was pretty civil and a good place to discus parts of the airline industry I knew little about but was curious to learn. I still like to read the discussions on the technical aspects or the perspective from the pilot’s seat. But all to often the discussion turns to politics and looks more like Facebook then Flight Aware.
srobak
srobak 2
you have your politicians, media and whackadoos to thank for all of it, in pushing it to infiltrate every aspect of our lives.
mindycomstock
Mindy Comstock 4
About time. The Demo/Leftists/Fascists didn't have the authority to do it in the first place. Overreach.
dnorthern
dnorthern 4
ColinSeftel
Colin Seftel 3
To anyone who still doesn't understand the reason for wearing masks when social distancing isn't possible, why do you think that everyone in an operating room must wear a mask EXCEPT the patient?

The health and safety of the community will always have a higher priority than personal freedoms. That's why you don't have the freedom to not wear a seat belt in a car, or to import dangerous drugs, or to carry a firearm onto an aircraft.

I recently made four long-haul flights over 6 hours each, wearing a mask. It wasn't so bad. I have suffered much worse in the air!
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 5
Surgeons wear masks for two reasons:

To avoid accidentally spitting or sneezing into the open body cavity of a patient.
To avoid blood or puss from a patient accidentally spewing into their face.

They do not wear them with any expectation of preventing viral infection.
dnorthern
dnorthern 0
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
Masks MITIGATE fluid transfer in a close contact environment. They do not nor are they expected to block a biohazard. They're there in case the patient erupts fluids or if the staff member suddenly coughs or sneezes.

Never mind the fact about how clean the environment is on an airliner. Shall I educate you on that or do you choose to continue to be ignorant?
mutrock
Mark Kortum 1
Sounds like you are requesting that Congress and/or individual states pass a law that requires masks be worn on public transportation, like they have done for drugs, seat belts, and firearms. The governments never did this.
dnorthern
dnorthern 0
“Except the patient”???

Ok NN. You do realize the patient is intubated during surgery. The endotracheal tube is introduced via the patients mouth. As such, a mask is not and can not be used on a patient

Clearly you have a wet noodle grasp of science
bdjam
Brian James 1
An activist, trump appointed judge, with no experience and who has been deemed unqualified for the role made a decision based on the filed brief and didn't do any due diligence to explore any data or witnesses. Those of us who have to fly and who have pre existing conditions thank you all for your actions to ensure our well being.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 5
I do not mean this as an uncaring remark, but it is not the job of society at large to ensure your well being. It's your job.

Again I'll ask - What did you do when flying before the pandemic? Go back to doing that.
Because the pandemic is over.
dnorthern
dnorthern -6
You are a judgmental fool.
imtxsmoke
Jeffrey Bue 2
Finally!
rcarlass
Rob Carlassara 2
If you had 3+ doses of vaccine and STILL Need to wear a mask , please stay home. COVID will outlive us. Cannot wear a mask forever.

BTW my 10 year old nephew wore a mask 100% of the time in school and #surprise #surprise. Got Omicron and spread it to his entire family. Mom/Dad/Sister all got it ( all vaxxed so very mild).

We need to move on from this. If you are really concerned, take a rapid antigen test ( which is a great idea) right before you fly.
mutrock
Mark Kortum 3
You could wear a mask forever and that is the problem. We were being tested by the tyrants to see if we would do that and anything else we are told for our "own safety".
srobak
srobak 0
bingo. waiting for them to test me. you'll likely end up reading about it in the news.
Madwolf05
It's been a few days, but I understand that the issue is how the judge made the ruling that is the main concern here. And that may be why it is appealed, rather than to simply reinstate the mask mandate.

The DOJ has also asked the CDC if it believes the appeal is necessary, so the CDC may decide masks are no longer needed and tell the DOJ to let the ruling stand.
jkeifer3
Joe Keifer 1
Was the Mike Tyson punch down mask related?
augerin
Dave Mathes 2
...naw, drunk dumb ass with video buddy...
srobak
srobak 0
yep - just another day of being drunk, aggressive mike tyson. sure hope the faa zero tolerance policy goes into full effect for him as an "unruly passenger".... heavy fine and banned from air travel. just because he thinks he is a celeb doesn't mean the rules don't apply to him.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 2
No. A drunk kid asking for autograph and selfies - which he got - but kept bugging Mike afterward.
dnorthern
dnorthern 5
At least he retained both ears
Airgoddess1
Airgoddess1 1
Hooray ! Some people however look better with the mask on. I tested my O2 level with mask on and with no mask
Oximeters do not lie. Dangerous to deprive one’s self of oxygen. I still see little children wearing a mask. Very sad
sweeper239
sweeper239 2
I just did a mile on a treadmill at PX both with and a mile without. Funny hooked up to an O2 meter my level never varied from 98 -99% .
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 0
The mask is a symbol of submission by the masses. Free people being forced to wear a rag on their faces in the name of health and safety find that it did nothing except ensure government was able to restrict freedom on a trial basis. Now that government has tasted the control they want to expand that control to every aspect of our lives.
Nooge
John Nooge 0
Mark Twain said The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”

Good thing you dont like in Ukraine

Stop being a bitter victim and maybe you will have your day when you find out why
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 2
He also said:

"It's much easier to fool someone, than to convince them they've been fooled".
srobak
srobak -3
the day we all find out why is rapidly drawing near. mark my words - the next dramatic & tyrannical overreach will be quite profound and will plunge this nation (and others) into an extremely long and bloody civil war. It will happen in your lifetime - and is much closer than you realize.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 1
I don't think civil war will ensue (although, that's exactly what the controllers want), but we will see one more massive attempt at pushing this crap again. Hopefully enough people/states just laugh and continue on with their lives.

Plus they're engineering a food shortage, just for kicks.
srobak
srobak 1
when the states stop complying they will federalize it. it will be the first of many things to be federalized. one step closer.
PlainSpeaking
Brent Bahler -6
The judge, upon her nomination to the district bench on which she now serves, was deemed by the American Bar Association to be unqualified to sit on the court. In making the ruling, she substituted her judgment for that of Congress. The correct ruling would have been to leave the CDC mask order in place, question whether the CDC had the authority to impose it, but say it is a matter more appropriately decided by the Congress and its representatives which are closest to the people affected. For a single judge on a lower court to rule as she did is not the way a republic is supposed to be governed.
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 7
Regardless of what side you are on, these judicial appointments are about politics, not the law.
mbrews
mbrews 3
Probably the most sensible thing said in this thread. Too much activism among many judges. Results with uncertainty / chaos
dnorthern
dnorthern 8
No she didn’t. You have a poor understanding of the roles of the judiciary, legislative and executive branches of our government. Clearly You slept through basic civics, only to jump into the fray demonstrating your ignorance.

Your ABA comment is a straw man at best.

BTW. You are still free to wear a mask wherever and when ever. The decision by the duly appointed judge has no effect on your individual rights, nor privileges.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 7
I don't think they teach civics anymore, which is part of the problem in this country.
mwtshv1959
michael totty 3
dnorthern it is obvious Brent did not read Judge Mizelle's decision which includes prior case references annotating the reasoning for her decision. This decision vacated an illegal rulemaking by an executive branch agency thus protecting the rights of all of the Republic's citizens.
willardk
WIllard Kramer 0
she didn't write that opinion. I was written for her. She has never written an opinion or tried a single case when the GOP gave her a lifetime Federal judicial job. She is a GOP placeholder who writes what she's told to write....
NF2G
David Stark 2
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Laplace's Principle
dnorthern
dnorthern 1
Willy. Provide substantiation for your claim. Refusal to provide that substantiation make your claim meaningless and memes you a limpwilly
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
limpwilly! Now there is a term you don't hear a lot anymore. Thanks for bringing it back, I may have a use for it on facebook. But please let's all try to keep this site civil.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 6
First off attacking the credibility of the judge shows you are unable to debate the ruling. Second it is the judges job to interpret law and strike down laws that are unconstitutional. You may disagree with the decision but your wrong assuming it’s not her job.
watkinssusan
this site is NOT supposed to be about politics,whether or not some want it to be..the judge in question was appointed to the federal bench by the trump administration, without ever having served in a courtroom as a lawyer or a judge..it was a unanimous republican decision and she was barely over 30 years of age with no experience..the mask mandate was to be rescinded by the government within the next two weeks anyway,so touting her great judicial decision is truly not relevent..
jbsimms
James Simms 5
Yet there you go mentioning politics….
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 4
I did not start the discussion about politics so maybe take that up with the person who posted this decision.
As for the rest of your post you are just like Brent, you cannot debate the ruling so you resort to attacking the credibility of the judge. Come back when you have read and understand the ruling and maybe we can discuss it.
Have a nice day
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 3
Makes you wonder why everyone is in such a tizzy doesn't it. Or were they just going to extend the mandate for another two weeks in perpetuity?

Why two more weeks, anyway? Based on what science? Did Biden have some inside knowledge that two more weeks would make all the difference? Some reporter should ask Pentagon Patty that question.

I think they intended to keep extending the mandate for two more weeks, for the next two years.
srobak
srobak 1
1> you must be new here. the politics surrounding air travel have always been a discussion topic.
2> if you think the fed was going to actually rescind the maskdate in 2 weeks instead of continuing to extend it again and again and again and again and again and again and again as they have been doing - I have some ocean-front property in Minnesota to sell you
3> if you think 2 more or less weeks is going to make any difference - kindly cast your mind back to the end of March of 2020... when all we needed was "2 weeks to flatten the curve", and then life would return to normal.

It has been 772 days. You have been exposed. Get on with your life.
srobak
srobak 0
you clearly have not clue one as to how the judicial and legislative branches of this country work. Please go back to 5th grade and start again.
bentwing60
bentwing60 -7
If anything in this fantasy land of how 'WE the People' should be governed were to be done by rule of the constitution or legitimate rule of law your troll ass would not be here!
halgyer
Harry Algyer 1
Some airlines are lifting no fly restrictions on some people that were listed because masking incidents. Changing the mask re”gs doesn’t make these fools any more mentally stable?
dnorthern
dnorthern 4
Pro tip. It was the mask mandate that frustrated folks. That, coupled with the feds erroneously making airline employees their de facto enforcement squad. A recipe borne of stupidity and subject to abuse and abject failure.

I’m not excusing those who demonstrated poor behavior. Just saying the I’ll conceived design of the current administration created a situation designed to fail. On all counts.
MarcusGiddens
Marcus Giddens -1
Pro-tip; mask mandate started way before this admin, and was hardly ill conceived, maybe you missed it but we are in the middle of a pandemic- spread via aerosol droplets.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
aerosol droplets? Which are they areosols or droplets?
https://seas.yale.edu/news-events/news/aerosols-vs-droplets-transmitting-covid-19-there-s-big-difference
dnorthern
dnorthern 1
Pro tip (yet another for ya): stick to topic and don’t drag other mask mandates into the discussion
srobak
srobak 1
pro tip: the fact that you believe any of that just shows that you are not in a place to offer pro tips
mutrock
Mark Kortum 1
Maybe they were the smart ones and the rest of us behaved like sheep, following our goat to slaughter.
VirmantasStukonis
FFIINNAALLYY BUT STILL LONG TO GO FOR FREEDOM BACK COMON PEOPLE WE ARE HUMANS NOT ROBOTS WAKE UP
KayAda
Kay Ada 1
Currently at the airport here-LAX On my way here I was told that the county has reinstated masks for buses and at the airport. I balked!!Federal trumps state! People need civic and government education 101!
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn -1
I think the libs and CDC will come up with something in the interim like requiring that all people using public transportation must wear a red rubber ball on their nose.
Airgoddess1
Airgoddess1 0
CEO of United has announced publicly he will NOT revert
To masks. It was Delta that will not abide and will insist pax wear those stupid unhealthy face diapers.
Nooge
John Nooge 1
I guess if you put it THAT way

Hopefully we wont need to have Doctors and Scientists recommend he does

We will see the CEO of United is intelligent and air genius not an airhead
srobak
srobak -3
thankfully federal law trumps company policy for non-employees.
NF2G
David Stark 2
To which federal law do you refer? The mask mandate was never a law.
srobak
srobak 0
sorry - federal court ruling, which is in essence - a legal standing and ultimately the definition of what is legal and what is not. ergo - a law.
NF2G
David Stark 1
No, that does not follow. A law is enacted by a legislature and signed by an executive. Court rulings are not laws. Nor are agency mandates or executive orders.
PegLegJim
Jim Welch -1
200 nations fighting the same pandemic, and there are still fools out there claiming it’s “fake” or a “control” issue. Please keep in mind that this federal judge was a trump appointed judge, and is STILL classified by the National Bar Association as “Unfit to Serve”.
dnorthern
dnorthern 1
Trump triggers you

Pro tip. You are allowing him to live in your head rent free
Pro tip. The eviction prohibition is over. So you can move n.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 1
No, there's centrally controlled one-world organization fighting a "pandemic" (i.e. "the people").
Do you think think the leaders of all these countries actually decide policy? That's not how the world *really* works.
dnorthern
dnorthern -1
Stop with the trump appointed canard. Makes you look stupid.

[This comment was deleted.]

MarcusGiddens
Marcus Giddens 0
Go Ken Lane!
dnorthern
dnorthern 1
How original marky

Pick that style of retort watching grade schoolers?

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

ghstark
Greg S 7
You deeply and fundamentally misunderstand the US government as provided by the Constitution. It literally has nothing to do with science, or with *the* science. Each branch of government -- executive, legislative, and judiciary, has certain powers as delineated by the Constitution. No branch is subservient to another, this is sometimes stated as the branches are co-equal. Congress passes the laws, the executive branch carries out these laws, and the judiciary referees the disputes.

The judge here is not blocking *any* scientific decision, they're blocking the executive branch from enforcing these rules (the mask rules) because the executive branch wasn't given the authority to make those rules by Congress.

In any nation of laws the executive branch should not just be able to ignore or bypass the legislature simply because there is some serious problem afflicting the country. If the president can just say "b-b-but it's an emergency!" and rule by decree then democracy is just an illusion, it's really a dictatorship.
bdjam
Brian James -2
The CDC was enforcing the rules, not the executive branch. This is all about the rights need to declare their "freedom" without any concern about anyone but themselves.
dnorthern
dnorthern 5
FFS. Go back and study civics and understand the role of each of the three branches of government.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 3
the CDC is not a government agency, has no elected officials and has no power to enforce anything with congressional approval.

The CDC partners with Government, receives some of it's funding from government, but is not a branch of government or a government agency (despite appearances and it's .gov web address).
https://www.cdc.gov/about/business/cdcfoun.htm

In a legal sense, it would be no different than if Facebook had come out with this mask rule.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 1
*without congressional approval

-why no edit button on this forum?
bentwing60
bentwing60 6
somebody once said this,

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/fauci-email-masks-dont-work/
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 4
Yeah, people like to play like that didn't happen. And then explain it away by saying "Oh, well, the science changed and Fauci changed his mind once he learned more".

Sorry, that just doesn't fly. You're telling me that the man in charge of infectious disease in this country for the last 45 years didn't know what he was talking about the first time he said it?

We've known how respiratory viruses are transmitted for over a 100 years. Fauci knew it to.

He simply got a call from his handlers after that interview and was told to change his tune.
shenghaohan
Shenghao Han -1
I am not arguing about if mask is effective or not. (and if you want ask my opinion, there is a reason why doctors and nurses wearing them during operations in operation room)

What I am saying is: In the future, a judge can use this precedence saying some other practices isn't necessary, for example, Subway (the restaurant) employee wear gloves when making sandwich.

In many judicial systems, judges look to previous cases and use those as evidence/guidance. Previous decision can be overruled, but it will be much harder.
bentwing60
bentwing60 6
Justify tyranny as you will, I surmise you don't live in Shanghai!

https://www.marketplace.org/2022/04/12/inside-shanghais-indefinite-lockdown-isolation-outcry-food-shortages/
shenghaohan
Shenghao Han -6
Its just a common thing judges do. Is it true for every country or every judge? No

Plus, I am not justify any tyranny.
Personally, I don't mind wear a mask and you can't stop me from doing it. I decide when I stop wear a mask, force me NOT wearing a mask when I want to is also tyranny.

Oh and I have some friends live in Shanghai, they are doing fine. Yes buying food is a hassle because all the mandates, but delivery service had already resumed, you can order food online once again.

Never trust any single source for any information.
(I will no longer reply to this tread. We are not talking about the same subject anyway)
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 11
No one is telling you not to wear a mask and I am sure the vast majority of people feel you have the right to wear one if you want to. The problem is when the government is telling people they have to wear one without evidence that they work. Early on in the crisis there was nothing concrete on the effectiveness and even some of the people who pushed so hard to implement mask mandates were originally against them. Now we have two years of COVID-19 mandates used in varying degrees in different jurisdictions and can compare results so governments can make a science based policy if they desires to. But instead many governments are making decisions based on politics so what should be a science based policy has become a political policy. As such the judge ruled this mandate is not legal within the constitution and is no longer in effect.
So wear your mask if you wish and let others decide wether they will or will not wear one.
mbrews
mbrews 6
Tim, well spoken.

The cloth masks have been little more then a " fig leaf" with minor effectiveness.

At 80 cents apiece, the industrial-type N 95 masks provide meaningful protection to people who choose them. I am referring to the 3M models, industrial grade.

As you said -

" So wear your mask if you wish, and let others decide whether they will or will not wear one. "
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 6
Thanks for the support. Personally I do not feel this discussion should be about the effectiveness of masks, we have plenty of studies on that that we could debate about, but about the legal ruling handed down. I expect this ruling will be sent to appeal and maybe make it's way all the way to the supreme court which would be a good thing if it sets a precedent on the limits of government agencies to interfere with people's rights.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 2
Agreed. The real point here is about government overreach - especially from an agency that it not technically part of the government. The CDC is a foundation in a public-private partnership with the government that receives much of it's funding from private corporations (primarily big Phamra).

The framers of the constitution were well aware of pandemics. They lived through them; and in their wisdom, did not incorporate any provision for suspending people's constitutional rights during a disease outbreak - such as your right to conduct business, to travel freely, or to attend church or school. They left the personal risk assessment up to the individual.

The lockdowns and business closures were completely unconstitutional, not to mention, arbitrary and based on no science at all - since mega stores with the capacity for hundreds of shoppers were allowed to stay open while small businesses and restaurants were forced to close, causing many to lose their livelihood and life savings.

As many people have said already - if you believe a mask protects you, you are free to wear one. The government should assume you are an adult and let you decide what's best for you.
mutrock
Mark Kortum 3
You ever try to wear one of those real N 95 masks? I traveled throughout 2020 so I bought some, thinking if I had to wear a mask might a well wear a real one. After 15 minutes they became intolerable, because they had to fit so tight against the face. Then headaches from the two too-tight straps across the back of the head.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
I’ve worn them for 8 to 10 hr shifts but we change them out every half hour because they become saturated with dust from the outside and moisture from the inside. If your in an environment were you can use one with a purge valve they don’t get as hot and moist.
bdjam
Brian James -4
I hope that all of the right wing nuts who have proclaimed masks to be the next thing compared to chains will remember that it is now a CHOICE. Because the first person who challenges my wearing a mask on a plane isn't going to be happy that they asked.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 11
Why do you assume that anyone who disagrees with you is a right wing nut job? If you cannot debate the issues without resorting to name calling maybe you are on the wrong site. May I suggest Facebook as a place were name calling replaces civil discussions and debate?
Have a nice day
dnorthern
dnorthern 11
Cool your jets there big boy.

First. You can wear your mask. Anytime you want. Nobody cares.

Second your histrionics (“ the first person who challenges…”) are amusing. You will quiver and acquiesce when an old woman looks at you twice.

Nice keyboard warriorism. You deserve medal.
xhackr
mike ma 6
Congratulations, you've regressed from having no functional understanding of the law to childlike name-calling. When people, like you, make it a political statement instead of one based on law, you betray a lack of understanding of the latter.

If you insist on making it partisan, it is the Left here that is forcing action on others, not the Right.
srobak
srobak 4
I can promise you that not a soul will challenge your wearing of the mask. Do whatever you want.

That is the major difference between left wing nuts and right wing nuts:

Left wing nuts want to tell everyone else what to do, how to do it and how to live their lives - even if none of what other people are doing affects the left wing nut.

Right wing nuts want to be left the hell alone and will not tell others - including left wing nuts - what to do, how to do it, or how to live their lives, so long as it does not cause harm to others.

Leave people the hell alone. Mind your business and your space and your own conduct. Stop worrying about everyone else and thinking you know best or should have some ability to exert any level of control over other people.

Simple.
Cleffer
Cleffer 10
> force me NOT wearing a mask when I want to is also tyranny.

Who said that? LOL. Typical "arguing in circles".
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 1
Your friends are lucky. It's not that way for everyone.
https://jaapgrolleman.com/shanghais-stunning-fall-from-grace/?utm_source=hackernewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=fav
srobak
srobak 1
nobody will ever force you NOT to wear a mask. You can do that all you want. We also want that same ability and freedom of choice and not be forced to wear a mask.
srobak
srobak 1
people downvoting a comment pushing free choice and not forcing people to do things. This explains soooo much about our current situation.
bentwing60
bentwing60 -3
OK Jen (word salad) Psaki
bentwing60
bentwing60 -7
If you don't think they view as expendable, watch how they treat their own when the SHTF!

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/04/15/oh-snap-cnn-reports-biden-polling-the-worst-ever-recorded-in-presidential-polling-history-even-lower-than-jimmy-carter-in-1978/#comments
emkostiuk
Ed Kostiuk 5
I think you need to look at the current situation not at what we saw when the mask was mandated. Given time, new treating methods, and the possibility that many are now vaccinated and or been exposed to Covid it was the right decision.

I think we are all aware that Covid has become a political football no matter which side of the aisle we are on. When the elections were ongoing candidates would state they were not going to take the vaccine because one administration made it, yet when they took over power their political theory changed and now they were trying to find a way to demand we all take it. That failed as has many of the other policies over Covid in the past year or so.

Even the very organization that is responsible for ensuring our health and safety is at odds with each other.

Once politics entered the debate over shots/mask/demands it became the responsibility of the courts to look at both sides and determine who was right or wrong and what direction we should follow. Your logic might hold true if we were on the first 30 days of this incident but not 2 years later.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 0
The President set is that the constitution is above politics. In the judgment the judge explained that had this been science based the ruling would stand but the officials who enacted it failed to base it on science.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 2
Even if science had been involved in the CDC's original "guidance", the executive branch does not have the authority to unilaterally impose that guidance onto the entire population (and private businesses) through a mandate. Mandates are not laws.
bdjam
Brian James -2
The judge didn't read the science. All she read was the filed brief. She didn't look at data, she didn't ask for witnesses. She's not qualified to understand the law, yet here she is making decisions for 330 million americans.
xhackr
mike ma 7
Seriously? I have never seen anyone so intent on proving their ignorance on a subject matter as you have here. You have posted all over this topic, embarrassing yourself while lacking an elementary understanding of civics and law.

Should the day ever come when you learn that the judge's decision was based on law, not physiology you'll have a better idea of why people have laughed at you and you have embarrassed yourself.
dnorthern
dnorthern 3
Brian has elevated the concept of proving one’s ignorance to a whole new level

He represents that cadre of individuals intent on controlling the masses via emotion versus logic.
mutrock
Mark Kortum 6
Please tell us the name/number of the statue passed by Congress that she does not understand. Hint: This is a trick question.
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 2
Brian, if you feel like the mask is your 'blanky' then by golly wear the damn thing!
dnorthern
dnorthern -3
No, making the proper decision. Legally
srobak
srobak -1
if a non-legal, non-legislative, constitution-violating process is used in any future health or scientific decisions that affect people involuntarily - then yes, it absolutely should be struck down. Setting that precedence is a good thing, by every single measure. The unilateral declaration of law, policy or rule which affects the public should never fall to the hand of one person or one agency or entity. That is the very definition of dictatorship... not democracy. We have a legal process which must be followed and is defined by the constitution. All of us need to follow it - both the governed and the governors.

It is a very simple concept which this country was founded upon, and if that is eroded in even the slightest bit - then the only end result is tyranny.
srobak
srobak 0
to you dipshidiot twatwaffles downvoting the above definition of democracy and seem to prefer dictatorship - give Putin a call... I hear he is in need of some replacements for those he has either gotten killed or who were jailed because they no longer wished to submit to his oppression.
skyeagle
It’s a Damn if you , damn if you don’t situation .
In my logical opinion , that would depend with whom you’re sitting next too. Especially for a long distance fights .
It is best to have extra masks ready to protect yourself .
COVID and severe colds will still be flying with at times .
craiglgood
Craig Good -2
One idiot judge in Florida is helping to extend the pandemic. Good grief.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 3
And, idiots like you clearly are too stupid to understand that CLOTH MASKS DO NOT STOP MICROORGANISMS!
craiglgood
Craig Good 0
You should be using a KN95, but even cloth masks stop water droplets. Those are what the virus rides on. Try to keep up. Masks work.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 2
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2022/04/08/airborne-covid

There's a difference between "droplets" and microscopic water vapor.

Covid is airborne.
srobak
srobak 0
if you think masks are going to save you - then wear them. leave the rest of us alone.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 0
The N95 blocks down to 3.0 microns. The Covid particle ranges from .03 to 1.8 depending on what it's attached to.

Then there's the Danish study that proved masks are statistically irrelevant in the real world.

"A total of 3030 participants were randomly assigned to the recommendation to wear masks, and 2994 were assigned to control; 4862 completed the study. Infection with SARS-CoV-2 occurred in 42 participants recommended masks (1.8%) and 53 control participants (2.1%). The between-group difference was −0.3 percentage point."

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

Is the N95 even manufactured to NIOSH standards? Or, is it a Chinese knockoff? Biden was recently handing out masks at the White House that had a label indicating it was made in China. Go figure.

Now, let's talk about the environmental system in an airliner. They use upper level HEPA filters. The air is cycled four to six times more per hour than the average commercial building and that includes hospital ORs. The only thing that may exceed it is a microcircuit cleanroom using laminar airflow. Fresh air from engine bleed is introduced at about 50% per hour.

Throw in the fact at altitude you're not going to find particles short of flying through volcanic ash which tends to have a negative impact on turbines.

Now, you were saying?
dnorthern
dnorthern 2
To add to your correct statements… an n95 is marginally useful unless
-properly fitted (your glasses fog while wearing one? It ain’t effective)
- two behind the head elastic loops (see above). Nope, those earloops are not effective to cause a tight fit
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 2
An N95 is not useful against a biohazard regardless of how tight it is worn.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
You can buy a Medical Grade N95 that has a coating on the fibers that will catch and/or neutralize many biohazards. But on the box it says not effective against Covid19.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
There is no such mask that will block a biohazard. You won't get one unless it's NBC rated and you're spending north of $200. That's what we wore during general quarters on a Navy carrier.
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 2
No, the media did that.
craiglgood
Craig Good 1
The pandemic is not over.
https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1516066189914501124?s=21&t=i1a3bhy5Tp2OLosv3RclhA
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 4
There never was a pandemic. There was an epidemic of "cases" driven by a fraudulent PCR test (a misnomer and misuse of a lab procedure) and finagled numbers by the CDC and media hysteria.

The vast majority of deaths counted as "covid" were not actually caused *by* covid.
Excess deaths in 2020 were caused by the government's response.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
First, give us something more objective than the far left Kaiser Foundation.

Next, let's see the demographics of those deaths regarding comorbidities, age, etc.

That data is on the CDC site though they are piss poor about breaking it down compared to how it was done when Trump was in office.
Gorgonzola323
David Schneider -4
This is officially the Age ofTrump and we are truly ruled by lunatics.
NF2G
David Stark 3
Interesting that anyone could say that. Does that mean that you admit the senile guy in the White House is NOT actually running the country?
dnorthern
dnorthern 1
Leftist like you are the real problem. Sober up, Kenny
srobak
srobak 1
there ya go - blame a guy who hasn't been in office for almost a year an a half.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
Clearly, I'm a Trumper who is educated on airliner environmental systems.
briansfreeman
Brian Freeman -8
I still can't get over the fact that people get their panties so entangled and completely lose their sh!t over having to wear a mask for a couple of hours. Yeah it's a minor inconvenience, but hardly the start of a Naziesque government take over of your country. Your paranoia is showing - again...
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 6
srobak is right. You really don't get it.

First it's masks.
There were temperature checks in many places too.
Then mandatory vaccination.
Then proof of vaccination (papers, please!).
Then the requirement to check in everywhere you go with a digital vaccine passport.
Eventually, that starts to include ALL health information.
Next, this will no longer be about Covid, it will just be required for everyday life.
The digital ID will be linked to your social media and other online behavior, ushering in a social credit score.
It will also be linked to your bank account. Cash will be phased out.
If you miss a booster shot, or engage in "unacceptable" online behavior (commit "wrongthink"), your funds will be frozen by the government or fine will be deducted from your account automatically.

ALL of this is already happening in China.
SOME of it has already happened in Canada, Australia and Europe.
NONE of it is conspiracy. It's openly discussed and being planned.
sparkie624
sparkie624 4
You are correct... It was turning into more of Government Control!
MichaelDealey
Michael Dealey 3
Replying to my own remark.. Here you go:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/european-digital-identity_en

They're calling it "voluntary" for now. It will soon be mandatory.

And in Canada...
Here's what rolling over and complying with unlawful mandates leads to:

https://lorphicweb.com/quebec-passes-bill-15-which-gives-the-state-full-control-of-your-children-and-extends-mask-mandate/

So the government can just come take your children if you don't want them vaccinated or refuse to have them wear a mask.

The only thing preventing this stuff in America (so far) is the 2nd amendment. But they're working on getting rid of that too.
srobak
srobak 5
It always starts with small steps. Eventually they add up to great distances traveled. Look at how much liberty and free choice had already been eroded away prior to covid.
dnorthern
dnorthern 2
Small steps
Germany 1930s
Russia today?
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 0
Because they DO NOT WORK, Dippy!
greatwildblueyonder
I know that I take my medical advice from a hick town Judge, NOT.
mutrock
Mark Kortum 15
You don't have to. That is the wonderful thing about a free society. Use your own best judgement about what is good for you.
dnorthern
dnorthern 4
A ‘hick town judge’. Funny. And indicative of your base stupidity.

Nothing in her ruling affect your ability to wear a mask - anywhere and anytime you wish.

The fact you fail to realize that fact fully expresses why you are an abject fool. And a tool
srobak
srobak 3
nobody is taking any medical advice from a judge. they are making their own medical decisions for themselves and are now allowed to because of that judge. (btw - federal judges do not have courts in hick towns). Medical was never a point of this ruling. Legality and process was.
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 1
So wear your mask wildbluewonder!
KineticRider
Randy Marco -5
Definitely this idiotic and incorrect decision is getting overturned!

The Fed Judge is a COMPLETE IDIOT with NOT one day of experience in a trial. Typical of the dumpster trumpster to appoint a COMPLETE IDIOT... just like him.

The American Bar Association was/is HIGHLY CRITICAL of her being unqualified and NEVER should have been appointed..... but the 'TARDS on this forum are predictably CLUELESS, as always!
dnorthern
dnorthern 2
Poor little boy. Trump teiggered as usual.

Speaking of clueless, look on your mirror, little one.
slederman1
Sam Ledeeman -6
Judges practicing medicine without a license. Its so strange that one person can make such a sweeping decision for the entire country. I am traveling this weekend, and masks are off!
dnorthern
dnorthern 7
1. Not a medical decision
2. Masks, except a properly fitted n95 ( and not the one with earloops) are marginally effective at best
3. You are free to wear a mask. So enough with your pusillanimous histrionics. Makes you look like an immature child, Sammy
sparkie624
sparkie624 7
Really... Can you explain how wearing a mask is practicing medicine... I have never seen a prescription for a mask!
srobak
srobak 6
nothing about this was about health of the practice of medicine. it was simply about legality and constitutionality. that is the literal definition of laws.
mlloyd996
Mark Lloyd 5
How many federal judges helped out Obama's unconstitutional mandates?! You can still wear a mask...or don't travel. Good god, you honestly think if I don't wear a mask, while you do, that you are in harm?!!! You are a good sheep...

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