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Southwest Wants 2nd Hand Boeing 737s To Stand In For MAX Shortage

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Southwest Airlines is looking to take on second-hand Boeing 737NG aircraft to make up on lost ground due to the 737 MAX groundings. (simpleflying.com) Más...

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talktalatka
F A 5
Quote - "Meanwhile, CFO Tammy Romo went further into detail on the outlook for his carrier’s fleet."
Might want to google the name of anyone you write about.
Because pronouns...
sgbelverta
sharon bias 2
There are just some days when spell'n be optional, the fingers don't go to the right keys, and we had a tad too much liquid entertainment before we sit down at our keyboard. As long as it's not on a resume, we can work through it.
jmadunleavy
John D 2
Or just lousy proofing
andrew5
Andrew Heenan 0
The Grammar Police Gene is strong in these two ;-)
paulgilpin1953
paul gilpin 1
jmanley20
John Manley 3
i called this months ago lol. Smartest move SWA could make!
sgbelverta
sharon bias 4
The retired planes, if they have been stored in a good environment, should be able to get up and running quickly. Probably not as fuel efficient, but they still can carry paying passengers. Maybe Southwest won't make a lot of money using these older planes, but they aren't losing money either. Having to cut service because there are no planes is their PR nightmare.
andrew5
Andrew Heenan 3
It's not about reinstating retired planes - that would be horrendously expensive - it's about scouring the market for used but still unretired planes, and deferring their own 737 retirements.
The downside is that everyone else has been doing this for 6 months, so they aren't freely available, or cheap. Other 737 airlines have been keeping them flying for their own MAX replacement reasons, or leasing them to fill the gaps.
Southwest has been 'overly loyal' to Boeing - probably on the basis of Boeing saying "we'll pay back whatever it costs you". Loyalty in business does not come cheap. But when it looks like stretching the bottom line is becoming suicidal, Southwest has to put its own future first. Oh, and it needs to return the customer loyalty, too.
xtoler
Larry Toler 5
That makes sense if they can make a good deal on used aircraft to offset missed pax revenue.
jmadunleavy
John D 3
Wondering if (when) they pick up 2nd hand jets, will they put their livery on them, given the Max may start flying again by mid-year? Just thinking of the expense.
Or does Southwest know something about when the FAA will give it's blessing and it will be later than whats be stated in the last few weeks.
Quirkyfrog
Robert Cowling 3
My bet is that they are about to abandon the MAX. When (IF?) it comes back out, who is going to volunteer to be on the first flight. People are going to be avoiding that plane. Carriers should really be thinking of dumping their MAX jets on the foreign second hand market, and just move on. Why risk 'the next 737MAX crash' dropping the bottom out of their earnings and consumer confidence. You can bet that 'the next 737MAX crash' will be a media circus.
KicksOnRoute66
Roger Anderson 12
People have short term memory. Once a few people fly them, combined with "cheap fares", this whole MAX disaster will blow away in the wind just like how the DC10 was also able to pull through hard times after their grounding.
darjr26
darjr26 3
I agree with you to a point Roger, but today, with the 24 hour a day news cycle and social media it’s going to be a lot tougher to convince the average passenger that the Max is safe.
Jackx9
Don Quixote 1
Abandon the MAX? Seriously? Yeah right, they'll probably be adding more orders for the MAX not long from now
sgbelverta
sharon bias 3
At least with my friends, they understand the problem was at Boeing, and not just that model of plane. Before they get on a 737Max, they need to feel comfortable that the plane design was fixed, and that Boeing is going to look out for passengers in the future. If Boeing had fired their CEO within the first 30 days of this mess, I'd feel much more comfortable about the future. That it took them so long to start cleaning house tells me that they haven't "got it" yet. This case is going to be taught in business schools for decades on how not to handle a crisis. The Johnson & Johnson Tylenol Crisis is considered one of the best handling of a crisis.
richardtarr
Richard Tarr 1
Do h really think people will want to fly on it ?
Don’t think so what airline will want to lose it customers to non max carriers and risk another disaster
666adt
Andrew Turnbull 3
Well, Southwest alone flew the MAX on 40,000 flights covering 88,000 hours...with nary an accident. I think most people will remember WHO crashed the MAXes. And it wasn't US domestic airlines. So I don't think the US market will mind being on MAXes flown by US carriers. I know I won't mind it.
Sabretooth78
To say nothing of the multitude of pilots who lodged complaints with the FAA with the performance and handling of the plane. It was just a matter of time. Wonderful until it suddenly isn't.
txkoinis
Ted Koinis 2
I was one of those Southwest passengers. I flew on the MAX8 and will have no problem getting on them (with US airlines) when they return to service.
richardtarr
Richard Tarr 0
Really what are you on !
Are you saying they wouldn’t have crashed if being flown by us carriers ?
Oh dear they let them out at weekends don’t they
ddsteele
Dave Steele 1
Did people avoid the DC-10 after its problems? How about the 707? I recall rudder failures on 767s - how many people eschew flights on those?
jmadunleavy
John D 3
Media is way different than it was when the DC-10 had its problems. With the 24/7 media coverage that has become the norm, it may take a lot to bury this.
For me as a frequent flyer, I do know what frames I am flying on and assuming the Max does start flying again, I plan to avoid it.

Not interested in become a statistic and the only thing Boeing will offer my family is an apology and a settlement. I'll still be dead.
Sabretooth78
DC-10 also wasn't a fundamentally flawed series of kludges on a fifty year old, obsolete design.
andrew5
Andrew Heenan 2
Very different. Two crashes, and an unsuccessful attempt to blame it on pilot error, a 'too close' relationship with the FAA, and a multitude of cover-ups. Doesn't mean the MAX won't bounce back. But it won't be as easy as you seem to think.
andrew5
Andrew Heenan 1
Worth reading up on the DC10.
After the first disaster, orders rapidly dried up and never rose again from <50% of earlier figures.
After the second catastrophe, the plane was dead in the water and soon discontinued.
Yes, they kept on flying, after major modifications forced by a (trusted in those days) FAA. But most ended their careers with major carriers prematurely.
So yes, I'm guessing many people preferred not to fly DC10.
richardtarr
Richard Tarr -2
You really are living in cloud cookoo land
If you think people will just forget and forgive and take the risk planes can’t just take a badge off like a car to hide what it really is
Sabretooth78
As one of the few entities out there that still seems to give a rat's tail about their customers, let's hope they do dump it.
richardtarr
Richard Tarr -1
Spot on roger one more crash and a lot of carriers will go bust by risking flying the max and passengers will just not fly on it .its a rushed bodged plane that Boeing knew was defective and cost lives people won’t forget and are not stupid you can’t just take the badge off like a car to hide what it is
666adt
Andrew Turnbull 0
Depends on the cause. If it's *not* MCAS-related, then it won't have much of an effect, IMO.
n9341c
n9341c 2
Good old Tammy! I LOVE that guy!!!
COYOTEHUNTER
COYOTEHUNTER 2
I believe when the MAX returns, it will be the most reworked, tested, retested, heavily scrutinized aircraft in history.
PLUS-> Boeing cannot afford to screw it up again, it would be certain death for the company.
Sabretooth78
Most heavily scrutinized aircraft in history by what, the FAA? The same FAA that allowed this to happen in the first place, and which was the last entity IN THE WORLD to call for a grounding? The same FAA that at one time led the world in its purview?

Some people have waaaayyyyy too much faith in their government.
grumble53
Ian Garthwaite 1
No matter how they rework, test, retest and scrutinise aircraft, people will always have their doubts and suspicions. Mud sticks. The flying public may also view the rest of Boeing's recent output and wonder whether the aircraft they're flying on was subject to the same cost cutting priorities of the former CEO, Dennis Muilenburg.
nasdisco
Chris B 1
The picking uo of spare aircraft has been an ongoing post Max story.
chrisrobey
CHRIS ROBEY 1
Agree with sharon. Great comments!
ADXbear
ADXbear 1
Max will cause the value of older AVAILABLE 737NGs to go up fast as carriers follow SWA lead..

Real mess for Boeing..
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 0
Southwest may have competition, I hear that Captain Hook is also looking at the 2nd hand market.
richardtarr
Richard Tarr -2
Don’t think the option for southwest passengers is too appealing.
Who will want to fly on the max f it ever comes back and the rumours are that it won’t?
Or come fly with us on knackered 737s ! that even the third world don’t want .
Plenty of empty seats I think
gsmith4151
harold smith -1
Southwest only retired the last 300, less than 3 years ago. Any of them still in the desert awaiting final retirement.
airuphere
airuphere -6
Oh I thought they were going for Airbus’ ? Well that empty repeated threat failed... now must get down to biznach! Heh
andrew5
Andrew Heenan 2
Interesting that so far, Southwest has remained loyal to Boeing, even to the extent of severely inconveniencing their passengers. The reality is, that even if the MAX is OKed this summer, it'll be months before all those Maxs sitting around will be cleared to fly.
Sooner or later, Southwest - and others - will have to examine their loyalty to the shareholder, and start looking for used A32xs, at least temporarily, to get their schedule back in shape. Having waited so long, few 737s are available and I'm guessing they ain't cheap.
And eventually, Southwest will need to look past their loyalty to Boeing and their loyalty to shareholders, and consider their loyalty to their customers - who have been totally loyal to them.
While there are advantages to being a 'one plane company', there are also advantages in having the flexibility of a mixed fleet.
Its gonna be fun.
Jackx9
Don Quixote -4
The Airbus fanboys and media want them so badly to cave and go with Airbus, but it's not going to happen, thankfully! Stick with Boeing Southwest, or I'm not going!
Sabretooth78
A true Airbus fanboy would recognize that a healthy Airbus requires a healthy Boeing, or at least some other counterweight that nobody else is currently able to be. You know, that whole "competition" thing.

This is bad for the entire industry, and especially bad for the "too rich to go broke" US taxpayer.
andrew5
Andrew Heenan 2
Trust me, most businesses would be more than happy with a monopoly. Not that it's going to happen in this case.
andrew5
Andrew Heenan 3
We need you, Don Quixote, to fly the MAX once it's fixed. Nothing like blind loyalty to overcome the risks of taking the first few MAX flights. Thank you!
airuphere
airuphere 3
I know those reports were crazy can you imagine the cost of switching over .. training, sims, stand equip etc.. my comment earlier was in jest.. I agree stay with Boeing
richardtarr
Richard Tarr 3
You seem to forget airbus have such a backlog of orders they couldn’t and don’t really need disgruntled Boeing clients by the time they could fulfil their requirements (don’t forget existing airbus clients have priority)
It is likely we will be flying to the moon !!!
sanil4
sanil4 -2
SWA should look into going back to DELTA airlines and getting back ALL the Boeing 717 which SWA leased -out to Delta ???

Boeing-717 from the AirTran fleet .....

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