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Oops: American Accidentally Flies Wrong Plane To Hawaii

Enviado hace 5 años

American has sub-fleets of both ETOPS and non-ETOPS A321s. In other words, some are certified to fly under ETOPS conditions (ie, over oceans), while others aren’t. And it’s important for airlines to get that right. Well, it seems like on August 31, 2015, American didn’t get that right. On that day, American flew a non-ETOPS A321 — with tail number N137AA — from Los Angeles to Honolulu. (onemileatatime.boardingarea.com) Más...

Lloyd Boyette

64 comentarios de miembros

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Pileits hace 5 años 13

Could easily happen to almost ANY airline especially with those that have very large numbers of different aircraft.

As the ETOPS joke says,

Engines
Turn
Or
People
Swim

I used to write this on the chalk board for years at my former carrier while teaching ETOPS stuff to the pilots. I used to tell my guys, "don't forget this joke" when you are preflighting you 2 engine airplane that you are about to bet your life on over the ocean.

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preacher1 hace 5 años 2

Your last line is contradictory. In the first part you say it could happen about anywhere. Your last line talks about pre-flight. I would think that knowing a flight was over water that an ETOPS certified AC was what I would be preflighting. As myself and another poster below have said here, a big part are marked on the nose gear doors for easy visibility.

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Lloyd Boyette hace 5 años 1

I love that joke.... never heard it before.

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preacher1 hace 5 años 1

For the uninitiated, here is the official wording, although the joke is more widespread. LOL

ETOPS is an aviation acronym for Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards, reduced as "Extended Operation" by the FAA.

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sparkie624 hace 5 años 1

Yeah.. But Engine Turn Or People Swim is so much more descriptive and the reality of it is so much more accurate.

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Tim Duggan hace 5 años 1

Crew duties in event of ditching: Ensure passengers safely on raft, at capacity, then take command of raft. Oh! And don't forget the Bar Cart!!!

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preacher1 hace 5 años 1

Yeah, I know. I said for the uninitiated. LOL

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Larry Loffelmacher hace 5 años 4

This should never have happened like all big errors it should have been caught early but wasn't. Dispatch will be in trouble.......if they missed it the Pilots should have caught it.......if they missed then OPS at LAX should have caught it.......and you can't just laugh it off because ETOPS birds have additional equipment and go through extra checks before the flight. Oil levels topped off ETC......so this will be a nice big fine for AA.

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sparkie624 hace 5 años 3

Somebody has some splain'in to do..... That is going to be costly.. Not only the flight crew, but the ground crew is responsible.

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joel wiley hace 5 años 1

I wonder if it was caught at some level and either not not reported or the report was quashed somewhere.

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sparkie624 hace 5 años 1

Read in the news today, it was caught sometime after the plane had departed, AA Notified the flight crew and they elected to continue the flight and ferried the a/c back to the main land.

Reference CNN Article: http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/13/politics/american-airlines-hawaii-airbus-a321s/index.html

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mzscapes hace 5 años 2

No matter your opinion of American, this is a serious safety violation and needs to be investigated... 1. to determine if this true, and 2. to determine how a non-etops a/c could have been dispatched... I find it hard to believe with all the systems in place this could slip by...

No shame on the author as transparency is the critical component of safety and ALL incidents need the light of day to prevent the future repeating the past...

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Charlie Kovacs hace 5 años 2

Yes this is a safety violation and needs to investigated. The dispatcher and crew need to pay attention to details. While the investigation is in process the safety team may a well give N137AA a passing grade and certify the A321 for ETOPS

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Larry Loffelmacher hace 5 años 2

Interesting take on this article........everybody wants to shoot the messenger.....lol......those in the business who have actually been there know this kind of mistake is super rare. If you work in this business you have to be held to a higher standard......lives are at stake and this kind of stuff just isn't tolerated, nor should it be. This should have been caught early, no excuses.

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Loral Thomas hace 5 años 2

Probably blaming it on a US Airways employee!

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Lloyd Boyette hace 5 años 1

Probably... LOL

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Scott Campbell hace 5 años 1

No - two back ... I'm sure it was America West's fault

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Patrick Keohane hace 5 años 2

Piedmont

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Jon Langton hace 5 años 1

I wonder how that went over. "Heh, Yeah sorry about that.... it's not that big a deal right, I mean could have happened to anyone."

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Lloyd Boyette hace 5 años 1

Someone got fired...

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joel wiley hace 5 años 14

Right, the one who revealed the issue. I can hear it now. "We have come to realize you are not a real team player here".

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matt jensen hace 5 años 1

Or promoted

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WALLACE24 hace 5 años 2

The promotion goes to the new team player because the last team player got caught.

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Tim Duggan hace 5 años 1

MANY years ago? Was an apocryphal 'airline story'....an AAL DC-10 at the gate at LAX....and? Flight Deck crew boarded....prepared with flight Plan, and departed to Honolulu. (PHNL). Thing is? They had the wrong airplane....the Cabin Crew and passengers thought they were going to New York. Similar Flight Plan times.....similar fuel loads....wrong airplane.

Sure....this was (if true) many years ago....nowadays with ACARS uplinks and such...not gonna happen. But back in the 1970s? (Or even 80s?)....seems plausible.....

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mary susan watkins hace 5 años 1

mistakes happened then and they happen today,but even back in the 70's and 80's when the dc 10 was a big deal,the flight attendants would notice a cart filled with "goodies" and marked for a hnl flight versus a long haul lax-nyc..they did actually serve more than beverages then and the f/a's always (and still do) check the catering carts..also f/a's back then (and today) wear mu muu type outfits or shirts for hnl trips..i could say a lot more but I wont..i was a gate agent for 28 years,and I can tell you this story is a "tall tale" as they say..i worked trips before there was acars and the pilots cchecked tail numbers,flight plans and fuel loads with dipatchers and ground personnel beack in "the good old days" before acars...

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Bruce Anthony hace 5 años 1

Hard to believe that kind of error can (and does) exist in this days electronics... :)

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Jeremy Bennington hace 5 años 1

While the crew should have known to check ETOPS based on their flight planning, most of that is done by dispatch where most of the blame would exist. Once missed there it is incredibly easy to miss. I doubt the checklist of a non ETOPS aircraft has a line item saying ETOPS check? That's not a question of how to safely operate the airplane they are on, it is a question of which airplane they fly. It would be just like getting on a plane with aux tanks, the crew and planning need to decide what equipment to use, once on the plane it is there or not there.

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jamu27 hace 5 años 1

Crew and dispatch missed it.

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Ron Lorenz hace 5 años 1

I have to wonder if the return crew were given PFDs?

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mary susan watkins hace 5 años 1

American airlines, as other large carriers,has a whole department of people and a whole area of computer programs dedicated to aircraft dispatch,what goes where and what the tail numbers are..there is always the chance for human error in any equation,even ones involving computer generated information..i would however,think the captain or co pilot of the aircraft might double check the tail number and how the aircraft is equipped before departure when the pre flight is done...

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preacher1 hace 5 años 2

It ain't pretty but for this to happen, somebody just didn't do their job, and it could have been any one of a group of people.

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joel wiley hace 5 años 1

Or several somebodies. I can understand a new item being added to inventory not being complete and something getting missed. But this would seem to be a chain of 'misses'.

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preacher1 hace 5 años 3

You would think that it would have gotten caught somewhere. BTW, I am done with everything. Got my wind back; now if I can get back strength and energy I'll be fine. CAT scan on 19th next month for followup.

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Frank Silano hace 5 años 1

WHY DID THEY NOT CATCH THE MISTAKE WHILE DOING THE CHECK LIST?

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Chris B hace 5 años 1

Bet there is a ton of paperwork to be done on this one.

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KauaiGolfer hace 5 años 1

A major screw up on many levels. On top of dispatch, ground crews, and the flight crew, didn't even one flight attendant notice there were no rafts aboard?

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David Stark hace 5 años 1

According to the Washington Post article (linked below), the ETOPS and non-ETOPS aircraft carry exactly the same equipment, less extra oxygen and fire suppression.

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30west hace 5 años 2

David, There is more required for ETOPS certification of the A/C than just equipment, such as a few different mx procedures prior to dispatch and additional mx tracking. I am surprised that AA equips the non-ETOPS jets with rafts, a lot of extra weight to haul around.

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sparkie624 hace 5 años 1

You are correct... They have different parts installed that are repaired to different standards... For Example, a Hydraulic Pump or a Generator from a NON-ETOP's plane cannot be installed on an ETOP's plane. The parts have to go under more rigorous testing and certifications.

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David Stark hace 5 años 1

I dunno. The article I read (and I know how far we can trust the media) suggested that AAL equips them all the same but only takes a few through the full cert process because it's such a chore.

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joel wiley hace 5 años 1

You may be correct but I think it's grain-o-salt time on that. I can't see the accountants who enforce rules to minimize fuel loads to save on costs favoring adding more expensive parts just have a consistent configuration. JMHO

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sparkie624 hace 5 años 1

It is not the bean counters... It is the FAA... The FAA states that the parts are to maintained to a higher standard... The FAA prefers Engines Turning vs People Swimming. I have been ETOPS certified, not only is maintenance accomplished more frequently, but even things like normal serving are accomplished differently in many situations, and a ETOP's certified mechanic has to sign the log book.... A Non-ETOP's mechanic cannot touch the plane until he/she receives the required training.

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joel wiley hace 5 años 1

I was referring to the comment that AAL configures them all the same, and just skips the certification. Your description sounds somewhat similar to the heavy use and adverse conditions maintenance schedule on my truck.

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preacher1 hace 5 años 1

Their is a difference in the 2 past the cert. While maybe not visible, ETOPS certified AC are basically more robust and as Sparkie said, take a little special handling.

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sparkie624 hace 5 años 1

I know all DELTA planes have in large bold letters on the Nose Gear Doors "ETOPS" and I imagine that the same letters are in at least one location in the cockpit.

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preacher1 hace 5 años 1

Southwest does the same. Not many of theirs were ETOPS certified until a few years ago after they took over some Airtrans routes. It caused a big stir on some of their newer 737's.

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preacher1 hace 5 años 2

They should

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Scott Campbell hace 5 años 1

Yea as a frequent 37 800 PAX to from Hawaii I always look for the rafts on the ceiling,
but then again I'm not normal !

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joel wiley hace 5 años 2

... and under the seat to be sure the last pax didn't take the PFD.
trust but verify

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sparkie624 hace 5 años 2

No... He is like a cat.. Doesn't want to get wet.. Just checking on the Life Raft... :)

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wx1996 hace 5 años 1

This story has been around a while - this squawk has lots of information posts and replies

http://flightaware.com/squawks/view/1/7_days/new/50472/Oops_American_Accidentally_Flies_Wrong_Plane_To_Hawaii

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preacher1 hace 5 años 1

I think it happened back in August.

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sparkie624 hace 5 años 1

August 31st to be exact.

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miles wohl hace 5 años 1

What about the way back from Hawaii? If it isn't allowed to cross the pacific than how does AA plan to get the plane back to LA to continue The planes service? Cannot imagine they would leave the plane there forever since it technicality isn't allowed to come back to the contiguous 48 states

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joel wiley hace 5 años 2

Ferry flight back, no pax to endanger.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N137AA/history/20150901/0030Z/PHNL/KLAX
Maybe the packed water wings for the crew.

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30west hace 5 años 1

Ferry flight, no revenue pax or freight on board; ETOPS not required.

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Javi Rodriguez hace 5 años -1

Misleading info. Article made it sound like the plane that was sent to Honolulu was one of the A321 Transcon's that fly JFK/LAX. Those are 3-class aircraft so the mistake would've been noticed immediately at the gate.

Instead, AA has the 2-class 321B's, which they own in both ETOPS and non-ETOPS. The aircraft are identical internally and externally, save the ETOPS marking. Obviously this is still a BAD mistake, but it's not like the ground crew were incompetent enough to board a 3-class transcon aircraft for a 2-class flight to Honolulu.

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[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

Tim Duggan hace 5 años 10

s2v8377? I am not sure why there should be "shame" on the author of this story. This is a safety issue. Dispatch is ultimately responsible for this foul-up (Last-minute equipment change?) ...but the flight deck crew (AKA "pilots") should have noticed too. When I was at Continental all ETOPS-certified twin-jets had the letters painted on the Nose Gear doors. (I presume after the United merger, is the same). Check out some photos.

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preacher1 hace 5 años 1

I remember a year or so back, maybe a tad longer as Southwest was taking over some AirTrans routes, there were some pic's of their new 737's with EOPS painted on nose gear doors and causing a momentary stir about what they were going to do. I think that is where it is on most everything now so it is very visible on walkaround pre flight.

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joel wiley hace 5 años 3

Right, shoot the messenger.
How frequently does this error occur?
This was a brand new bird delivered in June, was that a factor?

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Shawn Connelly hace 5 años 0

(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

American mistakenly used wrong plane for overwater flight to Hawaii

American Airlines mistakenly operated a Hawaii flight with an aircraft that was not certified for long over-water flights, the company has acknowledged.

http://www.9news.com/story/todayinthesky/2015/09/14/american-mistakenly-uses-uncertified-for-overwater-flight-to-hawaii/72244162/

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David Stark hace 5 años 0

(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

American Airlines Flies Wrong Plane to Hawaii

American Airlines accidentally flies Airbus that is not certified for over-the-water flights from LAX to Hawaii in violation of FAA regs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/13/american-airlines-accidentally-flew-the-wrong-plane-from-l-a-to-hawaii-last-month/

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Margeaux K hace 5 años 0

(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Oops: American Air Took Wrong Plane to Hawaii

Good news, twitchy fliers: Your fears of flying aren't completely irrational. The latest tale of concern comes via American Airlines, which apparently managed to fly the wrong plane to Hawaii last month in a decided FAA no-no.

http://www.newser.com/story/212758/oops-american-air-took-wrong-plane-to-hawaii.html

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