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Passenger's Airport Video Reportedly Deleted By TSA

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A traveler heading for St. Kitts who was creating video of his trek through the airport in Puerto Rico reportedly had his camera confiscated and images deleted by TSA, and local laws may give them the right to do so. (www.aero-news.net) Más...

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mcdonobr
mcdonobr 6
Regardless of changes to the TSA’s website or security checkpoint signs, however, passengers have a right to film TSA agents at work, according to a First Court of Appeals decision last year. The court wrote:

The filming of government officials engaged in their duties in a public place, including police officers performing their responsibilities, fits comfortably within these principles [of protected First Amendment activity].

Gathering information about government officials in a form that can readily be disseminated to others serves a cardinal First Amendment interest in protecting and promoting the free discussion of governmental affairs.
preacher1
preacher1 1
You are very correct on that, but with a line of people trying to get thru the checkpoint and everybody busy, you and me both know that somebody asserting their rights and being obnoxious, as is generally the case, is not well received by anyone, TSA or other PAX. TSA is probably going to get applause from other pax for putting him in his place. That's just human nature. That said, those individuals must realize that their rights end where the other folks start since,at that point, they begin to infringe on others. They can go ahead and exercise their rights in the form of a complaint, et. al., but after the fact to where it does not impede the others.
egnilk66
egnilk66 4
So....take their camera and delete their files? That probably hurried the line right up...
devsfan
ken young 1
since when is the label "obnoxious" applied to all who assert their rights?
Do you believe in "obey and conform"?
preacher1
preacher1 1
It is not applied to ALL; I don't really subscribe to "obey and conform", I think a better description for my part would be "discretion is the better part of valor". I like to choose my battleground and a TSA line is generally not the place for a constitutional argument. I generally try and not get mad; I just try and get even. Besides, most of the folks that I am speaking of walk into such an arena with a chip on their shoulder of some type. You know the type.If my comment offends you, then I apologize, but it is my opinion and as per our discussion I am entitled to it
devsfan
ken young 1
You wrote..."somebody asserting their rights and being obnoxious, as is GENERALLY the case".
Now if that is not a blanket statement concerning "All"..I must be confused.
Yes I know the chip on the shoulder type.
Lastly, we have a right to an opinion, but we're not entitled to an opinion.
I was not offended by your comment. Just mystified.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, I think you are getting pretty dang picky. Most folks my age apply a little common sense rather than arguing about an off the cuff remark. It seems that common sense left the country awhile back and some folks have no idea what it is. Those folks cannot be argued with and effort to change their mind is wasted. Based upon that, my part of this conversation is over. Someone else can respond to you.
devsfan
ken young 0
You are trying to rationalize what you now know was a poor statement
TheBunnie
Bunnie Meyer 3
My luggage was gone through OHD-LAX, my CPAP machine was very suspicious I guess as the rest was just clothes. My laptop and camera went though as a carry on with my eyes glued to them, I've seen the TV news in the past about TSA thefts and the recent ABC expose. I can't trust the TSA any more than I can the crazy cult of violent scum that want to take over the world for their fake "religion".

I wonder how many people have contracted some foot disease walking barefoot so the blueshirts can x-ray my clogs or flip flops or sandals.
devsfan
ken young 1
I ALWAYS wear socks through security! Just the thought of walking across that mat barefoot makes my skin crawl.
After passing through, I remove the socks put them in a plastic bag and do not wear them until I wash them in hot water with bleach.
People are generally disgusting creatures. I am NOT a germiphobe either.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW -2
I'm sure that they make you take your shoes off due the Shoe Bomber's (Richard Reid)failed attempt to blow up an airplane. He actually had enough explosives to seriously damage the plane in his shoes, but he was an idiot. So because of him you have to take your shoes off. There are shoes on the market that will allow you to fill the soles with liquids (explosives) so DHS/TSA is taking no chances. Now, Ms. Meyer, if you know you got to take your shoes off at the airport, would not common sense tell you to bring a pair of SOCKS or FOOTIES to walk around in until you have finished the security screening? You do have the FREEDOM to put on socks in the airport.
jnavratil
John Navratil 2
STEELJAW,

You can't make HMTD from a hypo of hydrogen peroxide and Tang. The physics behind this plot was laughable.
allanrbowman
Allan Bowman 5
Regardless of the details in this particular incident there is one overriding issue constantly at play here. It is the slow but accumulating decrease in the freedom of speech, freedom of action, and near Orwellian increase in control over every citizens behavior that is occurring in America. Yes security is important but so are constitutional freedoms. These are being systematically and constantly eroded.

Ask simply, have there been any INCREASES in American freedoms in the last 15 years?

The answer will say a lot about the state of the union.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 0
Increases in freedoms???? That's exactly the point we have been trying to make. I'm not saying that TSA is perfect.However, flying on an airline is NOT A FREEDOM and it NEVER has been. It's a privilege. The airline has a right to deny you access to the plane if you do not follow the airline rules and regulations. TSA will deny you access if you are not incompliance with TSA regulations. Nothing has been eroded here. If you don't want to go through TSA security, don't fly. Or better yet, fly an airline that doesn't have security? Those are your freedoms and rights.
jnavratil
John Navratil 4
STEELJAW,

The problem is that neither the airlines or I can come to a mutual agreement. The TSA is in the middle with its idiotic rules. They've found nothing, stolen plenty (no one in my family hasn't have something gone missing) and the best thing to happen to security was reinforcing the cockpit door. They are fighting the last war. Perhaps they should take up fire fighting, if Europe is any indication.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
John, what mutual agreement are you taking about? Please, enlighten us?
jnavratil
John Navratil 1
STEELJAW,

How about, I want to fly and they want to take me. We mutually agree the TSA can go pound sand. If you don't like it, don't fly, otherwise welcome aboard.

Do you think the airlines want anyone blowing up their planes? Would they be in business if passengers littered the ground? It's in everyone's interest to fly safely. HOWEVER, now the government has the security responsibility, it (that means the taxpayer) is holding the bag. The airlines don't care (it's not my job). The TSA doesn't care - just doing my job, and this passenger doesn't care either as I fly my 210.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 0
Well, let's do the math. If the GOV didn't provide security screening for commercial airline passengers, the Airlines would have to foot the total bill for security. Remember, Former President Bush sign the Bill that ALL pax/baggage flying commercial must be screen. If the Airlines provided for ALL pax/baggage screening, your airline ticket would be 2-3xs more than what it is now. If every major airport switched to private security, your commercial ticket will ballon. Remember, the Bush Bill!!! If memory serves me correctly, Airlines are only charging passengers about $20-25.00 per passenger for GOV security.
Now Mr. Navratil, everyone is not fortunate to have a Cessna to fly from State to State.
jnavratil
John Navratil 1
STEELJAW,

If I read you correctly, you say you are comfortable taking security welfare from other taxpayers. Beautiful! Actually, I think your numbers are B.S., so don't feel too bad.

However, I pay for my Cessna.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
Well, if you think my numbers are BS, research the matter for yourself. I'm sure you will be enlightned.
devsfan
ken young 3
you are off topic. The issue is whether we want TSA or security. The issue is whether or not we have a right to "watch the watchers"..
If we as citizens allow ourselves to be monitored, poked , prodded, felt up, listened to etc. WE should have the absolute right to watch those who are watching US. Because if the watchers have no pone watching them, then we have people who have absolute power. And as we all know, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
So ask yourself, "Is the this the kind of world in which I want to live?" Then get back to me on that.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
You are right Ken. We are off the topic. This was all started concerning a blog about video getting deleted by the TSA. We don't even know if it was the TSA or local airport police who deleted the video. We also, don't know if it was a harmless video or if the passenger strayed into a prohibited area to film something that they shouldn't have.
egnilk66
egnilk66 3
You do realize that the TSA is in bus stations, train stations, toll ways, free ways, and in randomly selected places in interstate motorways, don't you? Not just airports.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW -1
Yes, I know. I see the items they confiscate all the time. It's scary what people take on buses and trains. Again, it's not a perfect system, but it's a start. Does anyone have anything better?
jnavratil
John Navratil 3
STEELJAW,

Yes. Take the fight to the terrorist - the was has only just begun to get hot. Turn your argument around and say that if you are too afraid to fly without the TSA, stay on the ground. The TSA has been shown to be no better that what it replaced - it's security theater. To my knowledge they are the only non-LEOs with a badge and they act like they are at the ramparts. Pity the poor TSA agent who actually encounters a terrorist.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, I got to say one thing. Right after 911 but before the TSA, the military with loaded m16's were a pretty good deterrent. It doesn't do much good for the pax or FA's but I do got to agree that the new cockpit doors have been more of a deterrent than anything. I have often wondered, with as many BBJ's and heavy corporate aircraft that are around and them nor their pax are subject to or protected by the TSA, why one of them hasn't been comandeered and used the same way the ones were on 911. They'ed have to get 'em on the ground but they are still there. Whoops, I better shut up. I might give somebody an idea.
jnavratil
John Navratil 1
precher1,

Keep talking! We aren't the only peoply who think of things and security through obscurity is just another way of saying you have your head in the sand.
preacher1
preacher1 3
Well, while they take a lot of abuse, by and large, most TSA folks are just out there to try and make a living. That said, they are governed by a set of ridiculous, inflexible rules from DC. It's kinda like Vietnam. If they would have let people go in there and fight like they needed and wanted to instead of trying to micromanage it from Washington, the outcome would have been a lot different. You can't kick butt and take names when some bureaucrat has one of your legs tied up.
jnavratil
John Navratil 0
Cops giving out tickets for 10-over on an open Interstate are just making a living and keeping us safe, as well. It doesn't make it any happier for me. Baaah! Baaah!
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 0
You can't take down the WTC with a small private jet. Also, you can shoot down a small private plane a lot quicker than a commercial airliner. You don't have to wake the General to get permission to shoot down a small plane. However, you better have ALL Is dotted and Ts crossed before you splash a commercial airliner. By the way, Preacher1, that's being looked at by the GOV now.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, I didn't say a thing about a small private jet. If you will read the entire comment, I believe I said BBJ or HEABY CORPORATE AIRCRAFT. You must not be familiar with that part of the industry. I had 35 years on a 707 and 757. After I retired, company bought a 767, which was exactly what brought down the towers!!!!!!!!!
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
Alot of TSA agents are ex military. As a matter of fact, I know a handful who are Iraqi/Afgan and Vietnam vets. (One even has a Silver Star.) I pity the terroist idiot.
captainjman
Jason Feldman 2
I find it hard to believe you are a pilot or a passenger... perhaps you work for the TSA! (no matter what you say - I don't believe you at this point)

The freedoms I enjoyed as a child are slowly disappearing in the name of safety and security. America used to be the definition of a free nation, but now is more militant than ever. The police no longer wear white gloves, hats and blow whistles - they have several guns, para military uniforms - and the language of the laws has in fact been changing too.

The patriot act is anything but patriotic. It allows for anyone deemed a terrorist to be held without bail, without knowing what he is charged with, without representation of a lawyer, etc etc. This can and HAS been happening to actual american citizens since 9/11! Wire taps without a warrant, using drones over US airspace to spy on its citizens - using thermal cameras to view inside peoples homes... and what does it take to be labeled a terrorist? Amazingly little... in fact, if you have over 10 days of food stores in your home you can be labeled a terrorist and whisked away.. and since there is no due process they don't have to comply with habeas corpus either... so they can take you and not tell anywhere where you are. Today its terrorists - but now that there is case law allowing it- who is to say where this will lead to.

Just think about what you are defending. It is the people of the US that have the power - not the government. If people cant even photograph what they see, how are people supposed to know what problems there are. How do you have an informed voter if you don't know what is happening as a result of the government. How do you know what is important. The government is OF the people, BY the people FOR the people - and not (as many of our elected officials now think) the other way around.

Flying may be a privilege - but the US Constitution, its unalienable human rights and the rest of the amendments are NOT. If they are rights they cannot be taken away whenever it suits the government to do so- just like they are doing now with the TSA, GITMO, The Patriot Act and in the past with the Japanese citizens during world war II. As the best country on the planet we still did a horrible thing back then - and we are doing a horrible thing today, and it must be stopped.

The US government keeping secrets from its enemies sounds good on paper but is absolutely impossible. During the cold war the USSR know a lot more about what was going on in Area 51 for instance than we the people who pay the bill. The secrecy has only allowed our government to spend our money on whatever they wanted without being held accountable for it. Therefore, it is many peoples beliefs that there is very little justification for these TOP SECRET classifications and that too should be stopped. Im not saying we need to publish how to build an A bomb on the department of energy's website - but openness of government is needed to ensure the people still have control of the government and not the the other way around.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
Jason Feldman wrote: "The police no longer wear white gloves, hats and blow whistles - they have several guns, para military uniforms - and the language of the laws has in fact been changing too."

Welcome to the real world Jason!You are not in Mayberry, North Carolina anymore. In the real world white glows, hats, whistles and one bullet in your top pocket will not protect you from terrorist. Hey, that's not even going to protect you when you walk down the street. When all the terrorist, thugs and villians get rid of their Ak-47s,IEDs,RPGs,knives and bombs, then maybe we can go back to living in Mayberry RFD.

Also, I have two freezers and more than 10 days worth of food. No one is knocking down my front door, calling me a terrorist, and dragging me to GITMO.

Our freedoms have not been eroded or taken away. A big problem is that alot of Americans think privileges are freedoms. I'm not saying everything our GOV does is right. However, everything they do is not wrong.

By the way, your GOV has been spying on you LOONNNGGGGGG before 9/11. Ask anyone who was a military spook.

Do you remember Timothy McVeigh? Do you remember the North Hollywood shootout back in 1997? The police had 9mms, .38 specails and 12-gauge shotguns an were still OUTGUN. So, goodluck fighting crime and terrorist with your white glows, hats, whistles and one bullet in your top pocket.
captainjman
Jason Feldman 1
To get back on point - there have been several occasions - not just this one - where video was deleted by TSA. In fact one case was on TV - and that video was shot well outside of security. It is essential for people to watch the watchers - in Chicago it is illegal to film the police at all - and there is a LOT of corruption here. The law was passed to cover the CPD's butt. There are.no state secrets on the Chicago streets. We don't need the TSA hiding behind a wall of secrecy either. Just like the abuse of secresy at groom lake - when they burned toxic waste there- which is illegal in the US - and where EPA laws are not enforced. You know exactly what I am talking about. If.not, google it!

How does our government offend the constitution? I don't carry around a list, but a few of the offenses include:
1. Using GITMO to bypass due process - many are US CITIZENS
A. They do not comply with a writ of habius corpus
B. Prisoners do not have the right to an attourney
C. prisoners are held indefinitely
D. Prisoners are t allowed to confront their occusors
E. they are not innocent until proven guilty
F. They do not know what they are charged with
G. They are not allowed to remain silent
H. They don't get to see the evidence against them
The government has in the past over stepped their boundries, just look at what they did to the Japanese CITIZENS in world war II

In WWII they said the camps of japanese Americans was in the interest of protecting the USA. Today they say that about Muslim America s at GITMO. They said it about the toxic waste at groom lake (area51) - a d they are wrong about all of these.

The Constitution gives us UNALIENABLE rights. That means they cannot ever be taken away from you no matter what. That means the government is. Reaming the law - and people know it and are speaking out. Not just the idiots that want to start civil war - but intelligent American citizens, and not just in a territory but on US soil as well. Not just in probibited areas - but in public ones.

As a pilot I hope we catch all the terrorists because my life depends on it. But you don't. Real the law to achieve that goal - it is that very set of laws that so many have faught and died to protect - including your service. There is no honor in this conduct they are engaging in.

Yesterday it was the Japanese, today it's Muslims, tomorrow it could be you. We must fight to preserve our constitution any way we can. Recording what is going on and showing other is a form of check and balance.

I agree, a d would t expect you to be arrested and sent to GITMO for having ten days of food. The idea behind that language to allow an arrest was so that if they have. O evidence but strongly suspect someone is a bad guy they can justify it. That is a very very slippery slope - one than scares the crud out of many people - mcluding me. The road to hell is paved with good intensions

As for my comment about para military look to the police - in an affluent suburb there is no need for such attire. There is no reason for them to wear three pistols. After that event you spoke of - at first there were HKmp5's and ar15's mounted in the cars - I had no problem with that. But that does t explain a lot of the attitudes recorded around the nation. They are not all powerful - they have no right to kill people for minor offenses. That is why so many have. Een fired or arrested. We are not all perps or terrorists - and yet many I justified police shootings still happen. When I lived in Arizona there were a bunch of such shootings every year. This isn't Iraq where everyone is a terrorist. A lady was shot to death for forging a script a a drive through pharmacy. When she drove away from the cop behind her he opened fire at her and killed her. This is really what I am talking about. Many of these shooting occur where the officer was not threTened at all. This is not a good trend either.
captainjman
Jason Feldman 1
Ps - auto correct strikes again - UNjustified (not 1 Justified)

Also - not everyone in Iraq is a terrorist. I was trying to say that this is not Iraq where there are a lot of terrorists all over the place and nearly every street. - I am sure there are many good people of every nation - sorry for the confusion
preacher1
preacher1 1
What always gets me as a pax: being in line, knowing what to expect, having that pass and ID out, getting shoes off and liqiuds in a qt bag and all that, but get an infrequent flier right ahead of you and either have to listen to all the what for or the righteous indignation that gets expressed. It's all there on the web page when you buy your ticket or printed on the back if you get a paper ticket, and it's there for a reason, BUT, most people fly by CHOICE. As you said STEELJAW, if you don't like it, don't fly.
jrfly182
Joe River 1
Lady and genttlemen I agree with all your nice and factual comment. We have and appresive goverment in the name of Security. WE must replace those officials who violated our constitutional rights. Otherwise we must engage in a CIVIL WAR against tyrany.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
Alrighty than!!!! "Otherwise we must engage in a CIVIL WAR against tyrany."

The North Koreans would love to see that happen. As a matter of fact, they would give you a medal Joe River for stating the civil war.

America, drinking and blogging DOES NOT MIX!!!!!
Zaphod58
Steven Fortson 1
Regardless of how you feel about the pat downs, if you read the back of your ticket, and the inside of your ticket jacket, when you CHOOSE to fly, you are agreeing to abide by the airlines policies with regards to traveling on their aircraft. That means that you agree that they have the right to pat you down if necessary. Or whatever else they put into place as security measures. They are a private business, and they have the right to refuse to allow anyone to board their aircraft.
aknorris
aknorris 1
If all this ruckus actually was, in fact, "private business" refusing to let us board their aircraft, it wouldn't even be an argument. But that simply is not the situation.
This is the Federal Government unlawfully searching citizens (supposedly presumed innocent, remember?) before allowing them to complete a private business transaction with the airlines. THAT is the source of the problem here. We had security before TSA existed, remember? It was NOT the Federal Government.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
That would hold up in court before 9/11. However, it was the Airlines who asked the Governmnet for the help with security screening.
devsfan
ken young 1
Well.there's one more place in the world that can do without my presence.
I find it ironic that part of PR's population want statehood,btw this gets louder around elections, but now we find out that PR has "different" laws.
Ok, time we here in the US just cut PR loose and let them be their own independent nation.
jrfly182
Joe River 1
The PATRIOT ACT took our constitutional right away. So, why to have a CONSTITUTION IF the Goverment does not follow the Law.
jrfly182
Joe River 1
The PATRIOT ACT took our constitutional rights away. So, why to have a CONSTITUTION IF the Goverment does not follow the Law. Secondly TSA are security Screeners NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS. They think they are COPS>
I may suggesst to all Citizens BOICOT the TSA, Airline Industry and the OPPRESIVE Goverment agencies.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
Joe, I think the word you are looking for is BOYCOTT. You stated that the Patriot Act took your constitutional rights away. Please explain to me, how boycotting the Airlines, TSA and the Governmnet is going to resolve anything dealing with the Patirot Act? Please do a little research before you post?
jrfly182
Joe River 1
Good morning Thank you checking out my spelling. The purporse of the boycott is to gain passenger solidarity. This solidality represent our society against oppression. TSA can not exist, If there are no passenger. Just think that we pay $18 per passenger to pay for their exixtence. We the people can ask our goverment to repleal the PATRIOT ACT. Yes an effective boycott can affect the air transportation bussiness in such matter that the goverment may reason away from it's opression. I'm for the RESTORING our NATIONAL FREEDOM. is fine to engage the terorrist. But one not on this. I know for fact theat we bombed IRAK Sep >Dec 1998. and I understood that they had no WMD at that time. So, can you clarify this event. This is what triggered a terorrist attack in ouw siol.

Second thought .I'm not for N. Korea nor any appression. Democracy is great but oppression has its way!
fenton520
Mary Jo Fenton 1
Doesn't surprise me in the least after my dealings with TSA.
awicinski
Adam Wicinski 1
"AMENDMENTS" What aendments they are slowly being taken away
TheBunnie
Bunnie Meyer 1
Well STEELJAW, you must enjoy walking barefoot on a hard bubbled surface so you can prove your shoes are not part of an plot by terrorist pigs to blow up an airline in the cause of a supposed religion. At the very least, the dimwits could put down a soft mat. I've walked on cold concrete, bubbled hard material of some idiot design and there is NO reason why we have to take off our shoes and walk on that, it doesn't prevent the terrorist pigs from doing anything and I would frankly prefer to walk on a safe comfortable non-skid mat.

I think a DECENT surface to walk on barefoot is my RIGHT and not a privilege.

If you think nothing has been eroded, your eyes are shut, your ears are deaf. A determined terrorist pig will find a way sooner or later that works, and having the TSA agents steal your stuff, as documented on ABC, is an erosion of freedom.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
I agree, you should have a decent surface to walk on, and TSA agents should not steal your property. You are right, determined terrorist pigs will not give up and neither should we. However, your freedoms are still intact. You still have the RIGHT to Speak,Assemble,Bear Arms(yes you can carry a weapon on the plane if you follow the airline rules and regulation for transporting the weapon) Vote,ect,ect.... If you want a better surface to walk on, you should complain to the airport authority and TSA. As for the TSA theives, they are on their way to jail. An by the way, I never walk barefoot thru the airport. I have enough common sense to bring a pair of socks.
TheBunnie
Bunnie Meyer 1
All I need is a MAN telling me how to dress my feet. I've worn clogs for years now, they are the only shoes I have because they are so comfortable and I never wear sox in them.

If the TSA were better organized, they would have your shoes screened while you were standing in place but then that would be convenient and you don't think we should have that "privilege."

IMHO the TSA is just another agency where the people who can't find a real job go to work and we are supposed to be happy with surly people wearing badges. I don't care what of my stuff they look through, I don't have any crazy "religious" beliefs that says I should crash airliners but we have a RIGHT as Americans to be treated in dignity when we buy an airline ticket and use it.

Put a badge on a loser and see how he/she treats people. The TSA should be privatized and surly overbearing "I will make you do what I want for my enjoyment" trash should be easily fired.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
Ms Bunnie Meyer, I was in the military for a long time. I was in the gulf long before the Gulf War. Please explain to me, all of America, and especially the military/civilian bomb specialist, how can you effectly screen a shoe, clog, flip flop, boot, ect.. when the person is standing in place with it on? Do you have some alien technology that we don't know about? please enlighten us?
toolguy105
toolguy105 0
While I detest the loss of personal freedoms there is a question of safeguarding security procedures. In a sense it boils down to a chicken and egg conundrum as to which is more important. Personal freedom or safeguarding security procedures from terrorist action. It is truly a difficult question to answer.

What is easy to answer is the TSA overstepped their authority as they are not law enforcement. They only have the authority to search not to seize. If they spot something hidden in a bag or in carry on items they need to call over one of the law enforcement officers stationed near by to make the seizure and the arrest. They can, when a prohibited item is in plain sight ask for voluntary surrender of the item.
preacher1
preacher1 0
There is a time to assert your rights and a time to keep your mouth shut. He chose the wrong time.
jrfly182
Joe River 0
Well guys TSA the Transportation Bullie deleted my coment about how they violate our freedom of speech. Thay are not judges nor have the authority to bullie any one. Well I recomend a class action suite against those barbaric agants.
Recomend Disband TSA, Prosecute them. and Reinstate our freedoms.
Second option is to stop travelling and boicot the airlines and TSA.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
Note to STEEJAW..ran out of space below. I do not like the results either. The facts are that the towers vfell because there were thermite charges set before the planes went into them.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
Ok, but if they were set before the planes ran into them, who set them? Surely security cameras or some cleaning crew would have seen somwthing like this being done and raised the alarm. Remember,this wasn't the first time terrorist have tried to blow up the towers. Also, if they were set off before the planes hit, the survivors would have surely heard and smelled something strange. Thermite gives off a sulfur like smell. Explain this? HOW would the U.S. government or anyone benefict by destroying the WTC??????????
preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, whatever did it guys, the fire melted the steel; the building lost support and pancaked, and nearly 3000 people died. There was a lot of finger pointing about who knew what and when but the fact remains that nearly 3000 are graveyard dead; some never found because they were incenerated. AND AFTER ALL THAT WE HAVE A LASTING MONUMENT IN THE TSA.

Giving the devil(TSA) his due,we have not had another terrorist attack on our soil since then. Not going to say that they are responsible for all of that but somebody smewhere has done something right.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 0
Now,now Preacher1, the devil had nothing to do with. It was the Almighty GOD. He used the TSA,CIA,FBI and others, but it was all his doing.
preacher1
preacher1 0
lol.I stand corrected.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
At least yours CAN stand W..mine has lost its hydraulics.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
There are some evil twisted people in the world STEEL who think in ways you and me would not believe are posssible. It's a bit like seeing a poisonous snake you know it's nasty because it has warning colours and makes a noise. The evil nasty people are in the clothes of the harmless. The official engineering explanation was a very good one, very good indeed. Had many if not all of us fooled. Then a very good engineer with years of practical experience just happened to be in an auditorium during a lecture one day in 2010..There was an XYZ critical path offered using Newtonian mechanics with mass and accelerations as to why the structures had failed..the lecture moved swiftly on...the senior engineer spent about 15 minutes with his notes and calculator taking no further notice...EXCUSE ME..he said...your basic math premise is flawed. The visiting lecturer had no answers. Since he was head of the faculty and this was his auditorium he had no probs bringing this up. The thermite was used after the planes had struck.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
SO, how/when were THERMITE charges set up to explode in the WTC (both towers)without raising an eyebrow. Now, keep in mine the level of security that was in the building and the fact that it was bombed before? Show ME?
Zaphod58
Steven Fortson -2
You have never been allowed to video, or photograph a checkpoint. That's been a rule for a long time now. They don't want you getting anything that shows how they operator, or the equipment in use, so you can't get images of the screens.

When I was a CTX 5500 operator, you were allowed to take pictures of the machine (the media did several stories about them), but you couldn't get the operator's face, or any of the screens in any picture, even if it was taken from a distance.
jkudlick
Jeremy Kudlick 2
True, but there is nothing in Federal law that allows TSA to delete any videos or images. State and local police may enforce any state and local ordinances, but there is no Federal law against it.

In case you feel I am anti-TSA, I was hired at IAD 10 years ago to Federalize the screening process, and I later became an STSO. I no longer work at an airport, but I am still TSA, but I am an American first.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 0
Yes, but this happen in Puerto Rico, which is not a U.S. State but a territory. I wonder if their state and local ordinance perceive this as a security risk? Also,there's nothing secret about the outside of the CTX machines. They were on an episode of Modern Marvels. However, I'm sure the software and images are trade secrets.I wonder if there is more to this story than just a simple video trek. I see people taking pictures and video in airports all the time with no problem. I'm just wonder if this video treker got just a little bit to close to sensitive material or video too much.
Zaphod58
Steven Fortson 2
Puerto Rico still falls under US rules for air travel. Guam, Pago Pago, Saipan, and Puerto Rico are all territories, but they all have the TSA working the airports.

The reason that the CTX images and operators are so sensitive is because they don't want people to figure out what they can and can't see. Even the technicians identities are kept secret. Our technician used to get mail from Invision (before GE bought them), and there was never a return address on them, so no one would be able to see she worked for them.

Videos and photographs are allowed in the airport, just not near the checkpoint. Video would show certain procedures that the TSA doesn't want getting out, like how bags are chosen for more screening, how they are swabbed by the Explosive Trace Detectors, etc. They also don't want images from the x-ray screen getting out, so that you can't see what the x-ray can and can't detect.
preacher1
preacher1 1
If you read between the lines in the story, methinks he just ran his mouth to much and that will cause the dander to rise in anyone; I don't care what or who you are. I don't think you have to kiss butt but I always heard you could catch more flies with honey than vinegar
Zaphod58
Steven Fortson 1
We had a few people learn to keep their mouth shut the hard way. Usually after they decided to get smart when we were checking something that they thought we shouldn't have to.
preacher1
preacher1 3
Some folks will never learn. I am no TSA fan, but regardless, that job or any like it is difficult enough by itself, and someone comes thru on a holier than thou trip, it can really ruin a persons day. It is not just the TSA, it is any job where you deal with the public.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
Thats a fine policy W but 165m people were murdered in the wars of the 20th century. Any agent who puts his hand anywhere near my kin has all of me to fend off. They can do what the F they want with my bags but I make it plain that I do not want hassle. In the EUR they take you away from the throng and generally you got two fit men with Walthers seeing that you are kosher..fine by me...but the touching business on kids and women is a danger.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
Apparently, you haven't seen pictures of the new terrorist underwear bomb that's designed not to be detected by metal detectors. Also, Al-Qaeda has been using the female bra bomb for years now. An now that the TSA has relaxed the security screening of kids, guess what people are using to get prohibited items thru security now? Yep, you guess it right,kids. Last week, two adults tried to get a knife thru the x-ray by putting in the kids bag. These weren't terrorist, they were your everyday Americans. If your everyday Americans are trying this, just imagine how real terrorist are going to exploit kids. It's a free country and you can say what you want Mr. Roland Dent; However, Steven Fortson and Preacher1 are right. It's a difficult job and passengers make it much harder when they run their mouth too much. Yes, we all have First Amendment Rights, but people fail to realize that there are LIMITS to those First Amendment Rights.
Derg
Roland Dent 1
I don't accept that STEEL. If the USA gov. was doing what it should be doing then 9/11 would not have happened. "Joe 6 pack" is not responsible for failures of politics. By the way I am a UKer. I would remind you that 3000 people died on 9/11 and many more are dying today from the effects on health. No sir your argument is flawed.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 0
(Mr. Roland Dent wrote: "I don't accept that STEEL. If the USA gov. was doing what it should be doing then 9/11 would not have happened.")

Please explain to us what you mean by this? By the way,Who is Joe 6 pack, and what are you implying by this statement? For the record, the total number of people who died in the 9/11 attacks was 2,996 (2,977 victims and 19 hijackers).
Derg
Roland Dent 0
Why were the towers prewired with thermite?
THRUSTT
THRUSTT -1
Well what about the UK government, what have they been doing??? Besides "conquering" the world and honoring that old hag, what's her name, Elizabeth, nothing much!!!
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
Slow your roll THRUSTT??? Let's be real Americans an give Mr.Roland Dent the courtesy and respect that we would want ourselves? I really want to her his thoughts on my last queastions and please, please, please don't insult the Queen????? By the way, The UK government has has very instrumental in fighting terrorist. There is a lot that the public don't know.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
Thrust the UK gov. has beed sending 18 yr old kids to an early grave as front line pawns in a war that was created for all the wrong reasons. Thrust can you tell me why the twin towers were wired with thermite please?
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
I'm sorry if it came across that I was attacking you, I wasn't. I don't know if and why the towers were pre-wired. The majority can only speculate on the world's governments secret doings because only a select few know the truth.
The US did have 19 year old's dying in Vietnam, the British singer Paul Hardcastle had a song out in 1986, "19," about it.
I just get very ticked off when the world just slams the US on everything, when MY hard eared tax dollar LIBERATES them. And guess what, I'm not even one of those overly extreme dangerous patriotic people...
preacher1
preacher1 0
I am though!
preacher1
preacher1 1
At the risk of getting off topic, I'll put my 2cts in; Roland, I haven't heard about the THERMITE before, and as far as the 18 year olds; the US has been doing it too; The war in Afghanistan was originally started to get Osama Bin Laden. They got him 6mos ago. I say bring em all home and let them fight amongst themseves and kill each other, not us.
@STEELJAW - I think what he is saying here is that if security would have caught the 911 hijackers, they wouldn't have blown up the towers. Joe 6 pack would be a representative of the common man.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
Thanks Preacher1. I just wanted to be clear about it before I responded. Mr.Roland is right about that more could have been done by the U.S. governmnet, but there were some factors that were out of the governments control that allowed the terrorist make it to there distination. Also, THERMITE is an explosive that burns very hot. This is what most conspiracy generals say took down the tower. What they don't realize is that jet fuel burns hot and will cause the same effect on steel.
preacher1
preacher1 1
The fuel makes more sense to me
Derg
Roland Dent 0
The math does not work out for that W. believe me none of us wanted to find what was found.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
W..thank you..I am a product of a WW2 war marrige, the Nazi beheaded my uncle and imprisoned my mother. We owe everything to the USA. As you know I have connections in engineering the numbers are not adding up on the official reason the towers collapsed. You were talking about keeping STUMM, well there is serious doubts about the tower collapse. Looks like the towere were preiwred with thermite. Building was for sure. NYPD and NYFD are under serious non disclosure pressure. It was an inside job and it really breaks me up.
STEELJAW
STEELJAW 1
I am sorry to hear about your father and mother.Now, Mr. Dent, I fine it hard to believe that the towers were taken down by our government. WHY would we do that? The planes crashing into the building was enough to go to war. What purpose would blowing our own buildings up server? I need HARD evidence to even get me to think about believing this. If this is an X-File, you better get Agent Scully and Moulder on the cast! Again, jet fuel will melt steel. It's called a class DELTA fire and it burns very, very hot. In the U.S Navy there are times when they had to push a crashed plane into the ocean to put the fire out. ALL 9/11 planes were full of fuel and were traveling long distances.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
The hard evidence is in newtonian physics way beyond the space here and way beyond my ability.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
"I need HARD evidence to even get me to think about believing this." YEAH we all did..the numbers just did not add up.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
Why this was done is beyond the eng. brief. The brief was to account for the collapse..the numbers just do not add up. I am sorry too..
Derg
Roland Dent 0
building 7 was for sure..that proven
preacher1
preacher1 0
Hadn't heard none of that. Buildings withstood the impact. Burning jet fuel melted down everything else.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
There was so much concern in academic circles that the US State Dept sent out speakers to lay out why the towers failed. Within in 20 mins the guy was blown out the water by the senior man who did the math while3 the guy was lecturing. The math was flawed. End of story.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
We did not seek to find fault..no one wanted to find what we found.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
Just impossible...there were charges set.

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